Originally Posted by Denny Crane (Post 1425466)

Since I'm computer illiterate I responded the best way I could!:)

Denny

Originally Posted by Falcon7 (Post 1425454)

So our PWA wasn't really modified? If it was, show me what language was modified. It still looks the same as it did before the Pinnacle agreement.

The fact that Pinnacle pilots have preferential interviews and hiring doesn't change the fact that Delta is still obligated to Section 1.D.11 and 1.D.12, no?

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1425494)

Denny,

This has been covered thoroughly. You are looking in the wrong place and reaching an incorrect conclusion. Start with the Railway Labor Act and search Exclusive Agent.

When you can, please enlighten me.

I am on a phone and can not type, but this was covered extensively.

Sorry but I must have missed it. What was covered extensively?

DALPA originally agreed to 76 seat outsourcing in exchange for "credits." Northwest's ziplines actually put dollar figures on the value of outsourcing. Small jet flying was sold in the hope cheaper flying would benefit some on the list with more money. Of course others on the list got furloughed.

My recollection the 76 seat outsourcing was "negotiated" along with the other sections of the PWA and that it was a package deal. What were the "credits?" I think your idea of why small jet flying was sold is a bit myopic. There were more than a few reasons.

This outsourced flying was sold again, with pay concessions for scope and a preferred hiring opportunity at Delta.

And there is nothing we can do about this. I've rented your apartment in New York and we have a contract. Our contract does not stop me from subletting. I decide to sublet. You have nothing to say about it.

In my view it is immoral for a union to sell one member's job to benefit another member. We can not have unity when we sell our members.

I guess I don't quite understand whose job is being sold. Are you talking about the already outsourced job from the DPWA or some other one? Who are we selling out? Sorry I'm so dense. All I can say is that it is not the unions job to hire. It is the unions job to try and get the Company to hire as many of its members as it can which means getting interviews for as many members as it can.

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1425500)

The Pinnacle Bridge Agreement modifies the Delta contract by adding provisions which re order the written intent of the Delta contract by putting senior Pinnacle Captains first.

Do you mind reading this thread starting about December 27th of 2012? Do we really need to go though all of this again?

Do other readers want me to PM the materials, or put them here again for those who wont be bothered .... ?

Originally Posted by Denny Crane (Post 1425517)

I don't think I am. DALPA is the exclusive agent that Delta has to bargain with with regards to the flying that is covered under our scope clause. Is that wrong? I'm still waiting to see the language of the contract that was changed due to the agreement between Management and the Pinnacle pilots.

The DPWA allows for a certain amount of outsourced flying. In essence that flying is gone until we can find some way to recover it. I think we got some of it back in the last contract. (Others may disagree) But until we negotiate to bring that flying back to mainline, it's gone. What Delta does with it is their prerogative as long as they remain within terms of the DPWA.

I'll as again. What and where can I find the specific language that was changed in the DPWA that is a result of the Delta Management/Pinnacle pilots agreement? This is what a lot of the arguments are based on. What in this agreement changed our PWA? The only things I see being discussed have to do with items allowed by our PWA already.

Denny

Originally Posted by LeineLodge (Post 1425458)

This was hashed out a few days ago when the DPA mailer first went out. DPA certainly does pride itself on providing "facts". Unfortunately, their "facts" are not correct - but what's new there?

AF/KLM JV is NOT out of compliance. Again, DPA knows this, but they keep publishing this to try and gain a foothold. The 3 year window was agreed to when Alitalia joined the JV on the other side of the Atlantic. Management is currently in the compliance window, and still has time to return to compliance, be it through DL growth over the Atlantic or the Euros pulling down (more likely). We may not like the 3 year window, but it is in the contract and is NOT currently out of compliance.

Next....

In the Pacific, Delta is NOT out of compliance (notice a trend here with DPA's "facts"?) Due to economic realities of the NRT hub, along with Haneda, Open Skies Negotiations, etc Delta will have to do something to maintain a presence in the Pacific. The MEC has the ability, via the contract to grant relief to the company for the 316 weekly NRT departures. The important thing to note here is overall Pacific flying is up thanks to NRT overflight routes, and is looking like it will continue that way. No WB jobs are being sacrificed or given up - another claim DPA made in the email that isn't true.

We can either dig our heels in and try to force the company to maintain the 316, or we can meet them at the table pre-emptively to try and come up with a scope amendment that allows the company to continue to make money in the Pacific, yet still protect our WB positions.

We haven't heard yet what the "opportunities" might be, specifically, because the negotiations haven't concluded yet. IF DALPA and the company fail to come to an agreement by this fall, the 316 compliance requirement snaps back into play and we would be able to pursue remedy via the grievance process. Rather than both sides shed blood, we're first going to try to find a solution that works for us and the company. Don't know about you, but I'd like to try and get something out of this. If nothing materializes, then I expect we will grieve away. Either way, the MEC felt a mutually beneficial solution was likely enough to be worth pursuing, and here we are.

Again, like it or hate it, the company is NOT out of compliance in the Pacific (DPA myth debunked again) - and we have an opportunity to improve our scope as the Pacific situation evolves. To put it another way, what do we as pilots expect the company to do if/when Haneda finally supplants our NRT operation and the Japanese get their way? Is DL supposed to run empty airplanes just because the PWA says so? That's the direction that things are tracking and the company wisely is trying to make adjustments ahead of time. If we are able to extract a few goodies from them, for playing nice, then why not give it a shot? Again, we can always fall back to a more adversarial stance (if it were to become necessary) if the company and DALPA can't reach an agreement on how to proceed.

Further, this is an example of change for the better. In the past this is something that we would hear about AFTER the LOA had been signed. Your MEC is seeking pilot input on the matter due to feedback from the group saying that we don't want to find out about deals after the fact. This is our opportunity to influence the outcome. Don't let your concerns go unheard.

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1425500)

The Pinnacle Bridge Agreement modifies the Delta contract by adding provisions which re order the written intent of the Delta contract by putting senior Pinnacle Captains first.

Do you mind reading this thread starting about December 27th of 2012? Do we really need to go though all of this again?

Do other readers want me to PM the materials, or put them here again for those who wont be bothered .... ?

Originally Posted by LeineLodge (Post 1425458)

This was hashed out a few days ago when the DPA mailer first went out. DPA certainly does pride itself on providing "facts". Unfortunately, their "facts" are not correct - but what's new there?

AF/KLM JV is NOT out of compliance. Again, DPA knows this, but they keep publishing this to try and gain a foothold. The 3 year window was agreed to when Alitalia joined the JV on the other side of the Atlantic. Management is currently in the compliance window, and still has time to return to compliance, be it through DL growth over the Atlantic or the Euros pulling down (more likely). We may not like the 3 year window, but it is in the contract and is NOT currently out of compliance.

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 1425531)

Denny,

The Pinnacle bridge agreement commits Delta flying to another pilot group beyond the amendable date of our contract (i.e. beyond the point where our scope can be modified). How do you not see how that is a really big freaking deal?

Originally Posted by Denny Crane (Post 1425541)

I do think it is a big deal. I don't see it as violating our contract unless someone can show me where. There is a difference.

Denny