http://pinterest.com/star941atlanta/said-no-one-ever/

 

A good point there. We're usually more willing to let an incorrect assumption drive a lengthy discussion, than invest a little time in fact-checking upfront.

Why ruin the fun?

 

"Facts are stupid things"
~ Ronald Reagan

 

Or tens of thousands of pages about widebody growth and pilot hiring.

Just thought I'd throw that in there.

 

Oh great Sailing, now you've insulted old women.

 

I was just asking about the new rules. I skimmed them when they first "came out" although many believe at least some of them are still up in the air/a work in progress to some degree. We'll see. I haven't tried to memorize them yet because they are still a little ways off, could be changed, and I only have enough hard drive space for one set of FT/DT rules.

If the domestic hard 16 hour time is still there as an absolute max and is still inclusive of all reserve duty then great. If that is the case, I wish people would stop saying "there is no more Whitlow" and "Whitlow doesn't apply anymore" because if that is true, it is identical to Whitlow in every respect. So why ink the waters saying its not like Whitlow when its exactly like Whitlow?

Anyway as for international, 14 hours is the longest one can be on SC as I remember, but does time spent on SC before being called for a trip count as hours on duty for 2/3/4 man ops or is that just dependant on scheduled block hours for the flight in question relative to the circadian grid and all that?

IOW, if pilot A is a lineholder and shows up for his 8:59 block flight that could be a 2 man ops, but if a reserve pilot sits SC for 13:59 and is then given that same flight, would he be legal duty wise first of all, and second of all would he still be legal for a 2 man ops?

Note: the above example assumes an airline that allows 2 man ops up to 8:59, which I hope never transpires here.

 

The new rule does not differ between international and domestic. The difference comes with crew augmentation. That means as a example that if a trip is a two man trip to Europe it falls under the rule I posted. If its a international trip with a augmented crew then you have to go into the max duty time table for augmented crews and add 4 hours to get you total allowed time from the start of short call reserve to release from duty.

From my reading of the entire reserve section to quote a earlier poster its a massive improvement in safety.
Domestic has a worst case of 16 hours and can be better then that depending on report time.
International has gone from zero limits to substantial limits. Without augmentation the limits are the same as domestic. With augmentation you are limited to the tables plus 4 hours and shortcall max is 14 hours.

 

Did he really say that? I can't recall...

 

Whitlow was like lipstick on a pig. FAR 117.21 is, I'm fairly certain, the new RES duty rules. To answer your hypothetical, no. Not legal. They'd have to be complete with the 8:59 flight in 2:01 block. Augmented duty periods up to 18 hours with Class 1 rest facilities are the new max.