Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-24-2013 | 09:00 AM
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From: Still in one
05-24-2013 | 09:09 AM
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From: window seat
You know I think we covered this already but just in case we didn't:
May 22 (Reuters) - Delta Air Lines:
U.S. carrier Delta Air Lines will continue to sit out a wave of orders for the latest fuel-saving narrowbody models produced by Airbus and Boeing as it waits for newly developed engines to prove themselves in service, Chief Executive Richard Anderson said on Wednesday.
The two manufacturers have stacked up orders for more than 3,000 of the revamped models, the Boeing 737 MAX and the Airbus A320neo, which boast fuel savings of around 15 percent from the second half of the decade.
"We'd rather get toward the end of a production line because one, the airplane has probably been stretched, and stretched economics are always better than the original economics," Anderson told Reuters reporters and editors at Reuters New York headquarters.
May 22 (Reuters) - Delta Air Lines:
U.S. carrier Delta Air Lines will continue to sit out a wave of orders for the latest fuel-saving narrowbody models produced by Airbus and Boeing as it waits for newly developed engines to prove themselves in service, Chief Executive Richard Anderson said on Wednesday.
The two manufacturers have stacked up orders for more than 3,000 of the revamped models, the Boeing 737 MAX and the Airbus A320neo, which boast fuel savings of around 15 percent from the second half of the decade.
"We'd rather get toward the end of a production line because one, the airplane has probably been stretched, and stretched economics are always better than the original economics," Anderson told Reuters reporters and editors at Reuters New York headquarters.
Even if we miss some calculations, it won't be by billions. Waiting to buy all these iPlanes will save some massive capital we can hopefully use to pay down more debt with (which will save more capital) as well as other positive return investments like the refinery, etc. Many airlines have been burned with their automatic "I'll take it!" approach to anything new. This appears to be a very reasonable approach with minimal if any potential downside.
05-24-2013 | 09:14 AM
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From: 747-400 Captain
Carl;
You are not going to like my answer, call it political and a non answer, but imo your letter makes too many assumptions.
It is easy to say "yes" to your letter since in it, you state that the MEC is unanimous in its position. If that were the case then this is their position and it would have the entire MEC's support.
I doubt that is what you are really asking, but the letter and the question are written that way.
So,
1) I am not not sure this is the best or most effective approach to this. This letter is not something you write to get what you want from an organization. Its a letter you write to do what you say in the second half of the letter; leave.
2) Second question is flawed because of the first question and letter.
My goals are different than yours. I am not looking to leave ALPA. My goals are to make us stronger. Better results for our pilots and the local, MEC and National level.
What I desire on the Pinnacle issue:
Depends, and whatever gets the most/majority support of the MEC, even if it is less than what a single person or Rep would desire. Being right and just is great, and going for what you singularity want may feel good, but if you fail to reach your objective(majority support), you fail in doing anything. If you desire something that gets majority support, it will always be less than what you want, but its more than you will get done without compromise on some level. If you desire just a letter like yours, not much will be accomplished, except to incite a pilot group and usher them towards the door with ALPA. That is your goal since you say they are a failed organization. A letter of C&BL interpretation, letter of warning, a C&BL, AM or PM change, plus many others are options that accomplish the same goal without the divisiveness and threats you pen are available if the MEC decides.
If, when the MEC does anything is unknown, but some things take time and patience. This much I have learned. The one that has the longest patience generally is the one that moves the ball the farthest towards the end zone.
You are not going to like my answer, call it political and a non answer, but imo your letter makes too many assumptions.
It is easy to say "yes" to your letter since in it, you state that the MEC is unanimous in its position. If that were the case then this is their position and it would have the entire MEC's support.
I doubt that is what you are really asking, but the letter and the question are written that way.
So,
1) I am not not sure this is the best or most effective approach to this. This letter is not something you write to get what you want from an organization. Its a letter you write to do what you say in the second half of the letter; leave.
2) Second question is flawed because of the first question and letter.
My goals are different than yours. I am not looking to leave ALPA. My goals are to make us stronger. Better results for our pilots and the local, MEC and National level.
What I desire on the Pinnacle issue:
Depends, and whatever gets the most/majority support of the MEC, even if it is less than what a single person or Rep would desire. Being right and just is great, and going for what you singularity want may feel good, but if you fail to reach your objective(majority support), you fail in doing anything. If you desire something that gets majority support, it will always be less than what you want, but its more than you will get done without compromise on some level. If you desire just a letter like yours, not much will be accomplished, except to incite a pilot group and usher them towards the door with ALPA. That is your goal since you say they are a failed organization. A letter of C&BL interpretation, letter of warning, a C&BL, AM or PM change, plus many others are options that accomplish the same goal without the divisiveness and threats you pen are available if the MEC decides.
If, when the MEC does anything is unknown, but some things take time and patience. This much I have learned. The one that has the longest patience generally is the one that moves the ball the farthest towards the end zone.
Yes I would love to get rid of ALPA, but that didn't happen. I have no choice but to try to change DALPA. That's my motive here. In order to change DALPA, I first need to know where every rep stands on the single most important issue we face. That is the issue of whether we control DALPA, or does ALPA control DALPA. In my opinion, this letter is a litmus test for every rep, or they must be recalled. If you cannot even agree that DALPA has the independent and exclusive right to bargain for Delta pilots, nothing else that rep thinks matters. Nothing.
Now that you know my motives, I'll ask my two questions again:
1. Would you personally back such a letter demanding an apology from ALPA and a pledge from them to never do it again?
2. If Moak refused, would you support a new effort for an independent union that is the exclusive bargaining agent for Delta pilots?
Carl
05-24-2013 | 09:15 AM
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From: window seat
According to a senior network manager they are new 332 and 321s. WBs are 100% growth for SEA and LAX to Asia. 321s are roughly 50/50 growth and replacement. Caveat...he did not say the deal was done, just very close to done (this was a few days back so may be inked by now).
He also stated mainline will grow by nearly 130 jets by the end of 2017 based on current plans. That is net gain after subtracting planned retirements.
He also stated mainline will grow by nearly 130 jets by the end of 2017 based on current plans. That is net gain after subtracting planned retirements.
If that were true, I'd think they'd be anxious to prime the pump a little bit right now. At least getting the process spooled up and a couple hundred pilots processed through to the line even if it meant carrying a small low single digit surplus for a little while (and based on many categories already in May, it there is a surplus its being pretty artfully concealed).
05-24-2013 | 09:16 AM
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From: Light Chop
I don't see it as much of a gamble at all. I think the odds of delays and inconvieniences for all this computer created, hyper outsourced supply chain stuff are an absolute certainty. Waiting avoids all that 100%. The promises for fuel efficiency may or may not hit target, but even if they do, 10-15% is nice, no doubt. But we know how much that will equate to in savings, and we also know how much capital we would have to lay out. It just doesn't add up.
Even if we miss some calculations, it won't be by billions. Waiting to buy all these iPlanes will save some massive capital we can hopefully use to pay down more debt with (which will save more capital) as well as other positive return investments like the refinery, etc. Many airlines have been burned with their automatic "I'll take it!" approach to anything new. This appears to be a very reasonable approach with minimal if any potential downside.
Even if we miss some calculations, it won't be by billions. Waiting to buy all these iPlanes will save some massive capital we can hopefully use to pay down more debt with (which will save more capital) as well as other positive return investments like the refinery, etc. Many airlines have been burned with their automatic "I'll take it!" approach to anything new. This appears to be a very reasonable approach with minimal if any potential downside.
So I think it's still a gamble but probably a safe bet. The other airlines see their bets as safe too I guess.
Question though. In the years to come the 738 will begin to approach the 20 year old mark. I'm sure there will be a plethora on the open market and probably cheap by then. The only question is how expensive are these NEOs in bulk?
05-24-2013 | 09:17 AM
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Had a mortgage with the NWAFCU (now Wings) about 12 years ago.
Walked into the office in MSP, sat down with the guy, and it was a 30 second chat that was basically "what seat are you in?", and walked out approved. It was about half a point higher than the banks, but there were no points, closing costs or any other admin fees, just a $400 origination fee. If you worked the numbers, you'd have to stay in your house 7 years to make it back on a lower rate.
Mind you, this was back in the day when the FCU was practically an extension of NWA payroll department (you filled out a 3x5 card to have your mortgage payroll deducted) and things have changed since then. But I've been working with Wings recently for a home loan, and they seem pretty eager to please. Last I checked, loans were 3.5 with $1400 origination fee, or some percent of the loan, whichever was less.
Nu
05-24-2013 | 09:25 AM
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I don't see it as much of a gamble at all. I think the odds of delays and inconvieniences for all this computer created, hyper outsourced supply chain stuff are an absolute certainty. Waiting avoids all that 100%. The promises for fuel efficiency may or may not hit target, but even if they do, 10-15% is nice, no doubt. But we know how much that will equate to in savings, and we also know how much capital we would have to lay out. It just doesn't add up.
Even if we miss some calculations, it won't be by billions. Waiting to buy all these iPlanes will save some massive capital we can hopefully use to pay down more debt with (which will save more capital) as well as other positive return investments like the refinery, etc. Many airlines have been burned with their automatic "I'll take it!" approach to anything new. This appears to be a very reasonable approach with minimal if any potential downside.
Even if we miss some calculations, it won't be by billions. Waiting to buy all these iPlanes will save some massive capital we can hopefully use to pay down more debt with (which will save more capital) as well as other positive return investments like the refinery, etc. Many airlines have been burned with their automatic "I'll take it!" approach to anything new. This appears to be a very reasonable approach with minimal if any potential downside.
05-24-2013 | 09:29 AM
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From: window seat
They are also rapidly diverting cash to "internal investments", some of them quite "contrarian", in a move that many say is perfectly orchestrated to position themselves to participate in consolidation one way or the other. I think their days as a stand alone are limited either way though. That said, and while a SWA takeover/fragmentation is still my prediction for them, this latest series of moves does seem to be more directed at agitating the legacies in an attempt to force someone's hand or, if nothing else, to get some more bidders in on things to drive up the price.
05-24-2013 | 09:31 AM
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From: 747-400 Captain
Carl
05-24-2013 | 09:37 AM
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From: window seat
It's the bet I'd make too but with 3K orders already amassed you could get bit if MAX/NEOS turns out to have been the right move and your oldest airplanes start to become a headache.
So I think it's still a gamble but probably a safe bet. The other airlines see their bets as safe too I guess.
Question though. In the years to come the 738 will begin to approach the 20 year old mark. I'm sure there will be a plethora on the open market and probably cheap by then. The only question is how expensive are these NEOs in bulk?
So I think it's still a gamble but probably a safe bet. The other airlines see their bets as safe too I guess.
Question though. In the years to come the 738 will begin to approach the 20 year old mark. I'm sure there will be a plethora on the open market and probably cheap by then. The only question is how expensive are these NEOs in bulk?
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