Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1439437)

There certainly is. Negotiations requires actual negotiations, not accepting the very first offer from your opponent before the legal process even begins.



See above. There's more to it than rolling over and selling the company's point of view to keep the dream of constructive engagement alive.



Absolutely.



Stating your demands is the start of any negotiations. Making fun of "demands" shows me that you don't believe in anything other than constructive engagement. That's you're right. You might even be in the majority. But we're about to find out.



ALPA does deliver nirvana. It's just management's nirvana.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1439456)

This is sad. Everything you have now is because our predecessors did take the risks, and did suffer through the process, and did strike in some cases. Now you demean the very thing that has kept you from a career of RJ pay and work rules.

I know your avatar says you "no longer care" and you regularly tout that "I already have my captain seat", but it's utterly hypocritical for you to denigrate an actual fight for betterment. Do you have any idea how selfish and scared you sound?

Carl

Originally Posted by hockeypilot44 (Post 1439534)

You didn't lose anything. You have zero former Delta pilots in your category.

Originally Posted by DeadHead (Post 1439822)

Personally, I've started to become a big fan of banking our sick time.
I've heard that's how NWA pilots had it set up. It'd be nice to have the set aside just in case you ever needed it.

I'm willing to bet sick calls would go down dramatically as well. Why should guys who abuse the system be the only ones who benefit from it? I am not a use it or lose it type of guy, if I'm sick, I'm sick I could careless what the policy is at that point. While I may disagree with the use it or lose it mentality, I certainly understand why some people take that perspective.

Originally Posted by alfaromeo (Post 1439853)

I am not bragging about anything. It is just Jack Bauer highlighted this item as if it was a lie. Instead, it was delivered exactly as promised. If you have a contract then it restricts management from taking stuff away on their own. It also prevents them from giving you something on their own.

Originally Posted by alfaromeo (Post 1439816)

......and now we go full circle. First the claim is made that the re-fleeting was going to happen anyway and therefore it means nothing and now we have the claim that the re-fleeting was completely dependent upon us and:

1. We sold out the next generation of pilots
2. We set too low a price for the sellout

Our total compensation went up over $1 billion over 3.5 years. Just to compare that increase alone is probably worth about 15 years of the entire Compass contract, so if you are talking about selling out cheap, then look in the mirror. Surely if tough guys like you would all quit en masse then the RJ problem would dissolve immediately. So when are you sending your resignation letter in? Or are you going to continue to sell out the profession?

Since the TA Delta has announced the retirement of over 220 RJ's and have purchased 40 new ones. They are adding 88 growth 717's and now it seems as if some of the 737-900's will be growth rather than replacement aircraft. There is much talk of another 30 narrow bodies in the near future.

The SWA pilots have averaged less than 1.5% raises per year over the last 5 years, so I am not sure you should point out their praises. They are working as hard as they can to steal the Captain jobs from the AirTran pilots so I am not sure how they set the example for the next generation of pilots.

People like you are just hyperfocused on one aspect of the contract, RJ's above 50 seats and judge the entire world on that one aspect. Luckily, the majority of Delta pilots disagreed with your view of the world through a soda straw.

Looking forward to hearing of your resignation so you can show us how to take a stand for the profession.

Originally Posted by alfaromeo (Post 1439860)

You are also trying to expand the argument beyond what it was. The question was raised that when the MEC Chairman said last year that there would be upgrades for First Officers was that a lie or did it come true. The answer is it came true.

So now you want to bring in some argument about what happened from 2008 on after a massive worldwide recession and the large increase in oil prices. That is a completely different argument and centers around macroeconomic factors. Airline ticket prices have been accelerating above the rate of inflation as the carriers are now charging enough to make a profit when oil prices stay this high. If you raise the price of a commodity, less people can buy it, that is simple economics. Couple that with a loss of discretionary income from a large recession and it's clear that the decline in air travel since 2008 had nothing to do with our 2012 contract.

Back to the central question. Did the aftermath of C2012 increase the share of domestic flying at mainline and decrease the share at DCI? Yes. Is that trend continuing and accelerating? Yes. Have hundreds of pilots upgraded following C2012? Yes.

So the comments made by the MEC Chairman have come true exactly as written. What happened since 2008, four years before that contact, is a completely different topic. Many things in this industry are far beyond the control of the union or even management. The question is what factors can you control and are they successful. There can be little doubt that C2012 will accelerate the trend of transferring flying back to mainline.

Originally Posted by chuck416 (Post 1439910)

So, let me get this straight. You're O.K. with the trend here???

Originally Posted by johnso29 (Post 1439927)

What trend? A decrease in RJ flying? An increase in mainline flying? Profits at $100+ barrel of oil? Open CA positions AE after AE? Absolutely. :)

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1439940)

+717!! :rolleyes:

Carl