......and now we go full circle. First the claim is made that the re-fleeting was going to happen anyway and therefore it means nothing and now we have the claim that the re-fleeting was completely dependent upon us and:

1. We sold out the next generation of pilots
2. We set too low a price for the sellout

Our total compensation went up over $1 billion over 3.5 years. Just to compare that increase alone is probably worth about 15 years of the entire Compass contract, so if you are talking about selling out cheap, then look in the mirror. Surely if tough guys like you would all quit en masse then the RJ problem would dissolve immediately. So when are you sending your resignation letter in? Or are you going to continue to sell out the profession?

Since the TA Delta has announced the retirement of over 220 RJ's and have purchased 40 new ones. They are adding 88 growth 717's and now it seems as if some of the 737-900's will be growth rather than replacement aircraft. There is much talk of another 30 narrow bodies in the near future.

The SWA pilots have averaged less than 1.5% raises per year over the last 5 years, so I am not sure you should point out their praises. They are working as hard as they can to steal the Captain jobs from the AirTran pilots so I am not sure how they set the example for the next generation of pilots.

People like you are just hyperfocused on one aspect of the contract, RJ's above 50 seats and judge the entire world on that one aspect. Luckily, the majority of Delta pilots disagreed with your view of the world through a soda straw.

Looking forward to hearing of your resignation so you can show us how to take a stand for the profession.

Personally, I've started to become a big fan of banking our sick time.
I've heard that's how NWA pilots had it set up. It'd be nice to have the set aside just in case you ever needed it.

I'm willing to bet sick calls would go down dramatically as well. Why should guys who abuse the system be the only ones who benefit from it? I am not a use it or lose it type of guy, if I'm sick, I'm sick I could careless what the policy is at that point. While I may disagree with the use it or lose it mentality, I certainly understand why some people take that perspective.

Downside would be the guys that come to work sick just to save those hours.

Alpha,

Is that reasonable? What would be your reaction if we all demanded you quit?

You are a smart guy. The way to deal with differing points of view is not to suggest resignation of those you disagree with. What do you expect the outcome of that to be? He's not quitting, nor should he. Nor should you.

IMHO our MEC did this man no favors when they voted to divest him from us. Then one of our pilots authorized Pinnacle to re-order his flow through, diminishing the value of that golden ticket. His alter ego became the latest flavor of the day in the outsourcing business. He is angry, understandably so.

The game of outsourcing is thought out, ratified and facilitated by our side of the table. If disunity is ever going to be fixed, it is up to us to do the task. IMHO we learn from him and draw a circle that includes his interests. Before you know it, he will be voting on our Status Reps, or perhaps even be our Status Rep.

The world changes. The bottom third or so of our list understands the effect of outsourcing. Throw a thousand or so former Compass & Pinnacle guys on the list and the political dynamic changes.

I am not bragging about anything. It is just Jack Bauer highlighted this item as if it was a lie. Instead, it was delivered exactly as promised. If you have a contract then it restricts management from taking stuff away on their own. It also prevents them from giving you something on their own.

It really becomes impossible to gauge any performance when you write everything off as "it would happen anyway", when in fact you don't know if any of it would have happened. This is a cop out and a poor excuse for analysis. "Oh yeah, we would have gotten that anyway." Okay, then you have set the rules where you can win any argument because we are now operating in your fantasy world that can never be questioned because it exists only in your own mind. Look back at all the other pilot groups and let me know how often they "got that on their own anyway". In fact they didn't get jack until we set the entire industry on it's ear last year.

this is a hard one. if I go all hater on commuting commuters I want to say a policy that brings people to work is a good thing. it'd stop encouraging people to use their sick time for sickations and missed commutes. which is what happens 100% of the time.

but the fact they get to keep their sick bank is kind of like stealing from the bottom line. ideally they'd never use sick time and never keep it.

as a hater, this is a hard one.

/hating on commuting commuters :D


as ftb, what about keeping a % of the sick time?

hey Alfa, question. your carry over raw score idea I thought was a good one. so when you said you could write 20 pages on things you'd like fixed on the pwa, I'm game. what else you got?

IMHO such activity is foolish. Debating ideas and concepts is one thing, attacking a fellow brother is not allowed under the rules of our association. Some people are just being funny, or lack the capacity to express themselves in any better a fashion (I guess).

You are also trying to expand the argument beyond what it was. The question was raised that when the MEC Chairman said last year that there would be upgrades for First Officers was that a lie or did it come true. The answer is it came true.

So now you want to bring in some argument about what happened from 2008 on after a massive worldwide recession and the large increase in oil prices. That is a completely different argument and centers around macroeconomic factors. Airline ticket prices have been accelerating above the rate of inflation as the carriers are now charging enough to make a profit when oil prices stay this high. If you raise the price of a commodity, less people can buy it, that is simple economics. Couple that with a loss of discretionary income from a large recession and it's clear that the decline in air travel since 2008 had nothing to do with our 2012 contract.

Back to the central question. Did the aftermath of C2012 increase the share of domestic flying at mainline and decrease the share at DCI? Yes. Is that trend continuing and accelerating? Yes. Have hundreds of pilots upgraded following C2012? Yes.

So the comments made by the MEC Chairman have come true exactly as written. What happened since 2008, four years before that contact, is a completely different topic. Many things in this industry are far beyond the control of the union or even management. The question is what factors can you control and are they successful. There can be little doubt that C2012 will accelerate the trend of transferring flying back to mainline.

And do you think there is any way to fix that?