No kidding.. not to mention in this case being sharted out the newly opened back end of a 777 and surviving it, only to be run over by a fire truck.

And I thought I've had bad days before...

I agree with most of that. I was just answering the question about when full automation was pushed, and my experience was though out my sim training and on my OE.

As for the increase on the PM, well, maybe it's different on the bus, but when I've had the pilot flying do that on the 88 and I have to do checklists, change his heading bug, slow his airspeed, make the radio call, configure the acft, back him up on level offs, update the box for the jerry rigged VNAV, make sure we clear out that last altitude with the descend direct, etc., well, it kept me busy at times 20 miles out from ATL where I would have liked to have more scan time and less heads down time. Maybe another 3000 hours and I'll have a better handle on things.

I can't find anything that says UAL 232 had passengers killed by ARFF responding to the accident. I've heard it. But don't see anything on it.

The corn fields on the airport property were there I believe for revenue but as we can imagine it's a bad idea when there's passengers walking through it while ARFF is trying to appropriately and quickly respond.

Thanks...always just heard that list was an abortion, but this shines some light for me.

Sim training by nature is going to be more automated due to what you're dealing with in those action packed sessions. I've had sim training and OE on the MD-88, 757/767, 737, and A320 at DL. All the OE pilots encouraged hand flying.

The 88 is definitely the busiest cockpit, so your aversion is definitely understandable there! The hand flying that early as you described there on approach is definitely more of a burden as there is a lot going on- on climb out and once established on approach.... no biggie, even on the angry dawg.

That being said, when flying a visual approach, instead of managing all that crap, turning off the AP, FD, and AT is the least workload possible for the PM while the most rewarding for the PF no matter the fleet. It's by far my favorite when made available.

Well, I'm not going to point fingers in at any one particular fleet but autopilot OFF below 10K and judicious hand flying would make you like a



and on a line check





I may be exaggerating to be funny, but humor requires an element of truth, so maybe I'm not, but I am, but I'm not not, so i've covered all of my bases here. But look who hand flies the least statistically.

That said, I hope, and it looks like, we may move in your desired direction. As long as you don't fart in our general direction. Again, humor requires an element of truth.

Oh by the way, if this helps shine some light on the subject, Departure Briefing.... COMPLETE. Not completed. It's just complete. You keep saying completed. No D.

BTW, it's Departure Briefing... COMPLETE. Not completed. Complete. No D.

/venting

BTW, it's Departure Briefing... COMPLETE. Not completed. Complete. No D.

/venting

Exactly. Clicking it all off just to polish skills isn't always the best idea. 4 mile wide airways and +/- a few hundred feet all day are long, long gone. We're in the age of "hey no problem with us" from ATC and here comes an auto generated deviation for almost nothing. And nextgen isn't even here yet. There are times to click stuff off. Sometimes all of it, either for operational necessity or good old fashioned practice. But creating and then doubling the tunnel vision you just created while simultaneously increasing workload doesn't mesh well with the plus/minus nothing operating environment that's closing in around us. When it comes to the magic, sometimes more is less. The accident that kicked this discussion off in the first place could end up being a case of clicking everything off. A more assertive PM that said a lot more a lot sooner will save the day a million times more than a culture of hand flying just to hand fly.

I just hope we don't get barraged with memos and edicts from on high because of this, either way.

Classic line of the nigh: so pilots have 32 hour layover. FAs have a 32 hour layover at the same hotel. All, don't know how, are hanging out together. FO's wife has come along for the trip.

FA jokingly says to the FO's wife: "why did the Delta pilots wives club allow the FAs and pilots to stay at the hotel together for 32 hours?"

FO's wife: "oh I'm not concerned. In fact, I'd appreciate it if you could take care of it for me so I don't have to."