Originally Posted by NuGuy (Post 671917)

Heyas ACL,

Right you are.

Strangely, everyone seems to like to point out the epic fail the 787 program has become. Why? Well, everyone seems to think that "see, that's what you get when you outsource".

In this case, Boeing outsourcing "core competencies"...IE, outsourcing what they themselves do best. Along with that is the loss of job opportunities at Boeing, which, no doubt, pay well and have good bennies.

If the current employees and Boeing sat down and said "Hey, lets all get together, and work out a deal where we can bring everything in house. The company gets a better (and perhaps a more timely) airplane and a better process, and the employees win by getting more people employed".

Most of us on forum would probably cheer this decision, and say something to the effect of "about f'in time".

The ONLY people not cheering, would be the owners of the outsourcing contractors, and perhaps their upper management, who would shortly be taking it in the shorts because their business just went "poof". The employees, the guys doing the work, would probably be OK, since they have actual job skills that are transferable.

So here we have virtually the same situation. DAL WANTS to bring back flying in house, because DCI is not good for "the brand". It's only going to take another Rochester to force the government to do something, and that's something the airlines certainly don't want.

But we have a couple of "middle management" types from the outsourcing contractors here. They see their comfy sinecure potentially disappearing, and it's got them worried. They've made little or no effort to have a plan B, and so if Initech goes bust, they might be SOL because Intertrode doesn't have a need for people with "people skills".

Nu

Originally Posted by remlap (Post 672342)

Does anyone know if any of our current LEC representatives in 44 are running for another term? I haven't seen anything from them to date.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 671961)

Not them specifically, but some want to be able to come over here with longevity and benefits attached. That may happen, but the "IF" needs to be answered first. Then we will worry about the "HOW".

Kind of like the chicken or the egg.

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 671986)

That's why I ask mi amigos to stop trying to figure out the details of integration before WE collectively decide to pursue such a policy, which means changing minds on our MEC.

Lets look to the rare example of a merger that has worked and how that was managed. Did we know how the NWA merger was going to be implemented before we voted for it? Did we know what seniority would be?

I'll sure give Chairman Moak and the MEC (on both sides) credit for pulling off the smoothest merger I've ever heard about, or experienced. They did an excellent job managing their pilots.

Those would choose to fight unity will direct us into no win arguments on the details while they continue to subdivide and outsource our work. We have to be disciplined and focused if we expect success.

As is, both our own MEC and Management are against unity. Probably more our own MEC than management, which is ironic. It is a battle I doubt we will win anyway, but if we are even going to try we need to avoid letting folks pull us into these arguments.

Bottom line: Focus your energies for the next several months into doing what is effective. Learn about your Candidates backgrounds. Learn if they are entrenched insiders who will vote with ALPA's political machine, or if they will vote for YOU. Get those nomination cards filled out and submitted. Talk to the guys you fly with and those you see in the crews rooms. Get your Candidates elected.

It is not going to be easy. Those who are against unity have been fighting this war and winning for a long time and they are smart and seasoned experts at this game. We are hack novices in comparison. The difference is that we are right and they are wrong. Those who think outsourcing can be tolerated are like those who tried to appease Hitler. As Winston Churchill stated so well, appeasement is "like feeding an alligator, hoping it will eat you last."

Originally Posted by John Pennekamp (Post 672359)

I don't think it would be fair for us to come over with DOH seniority. But I would want to keep my LONGEVITY for pay and benefits putposes (including DOH for PASS BENEFITS). But for bidding purposes, it shouls be a straight staple to the bottom. That way we keep our DCI seniority, no one gets bumped, and we can bid mainline equipment as new positions open... behind all current DAL pilots.

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 671992)

... and by the way, you are right.

Bringing regional pilots over with their longevity would:
(1) Move the pay scale so far that management could not accept the added expense (even if done on a ratio the difference between year 1 and year 3 at Delta scales are more than the difference between years 1 to 5 on the regional scales)
(2) Bringing over longevity would mean new hires get paid more than current Delta pilots and use their extra pay while bumping current Delta pilots off their own airplanes on vacation - that's a poison pill that would have the DL pilots in an uproar.
(3) While I am all for unity - we have to seek equity and fairness. Giving a regional pilot tens of thousands more than a current Delta pilot would "punish" the Delta pilot for having interviewed and worked for first year pay.

One example that did work was Pan Am / Ransome. While not perfect, it was an incremental staple and Ransome pilots could bid Pan Am equipment when they could hold it.

But again, it is foolish to get into this debate. Joe and John will surely have reasons why I'm full of it and they should make more than I earn, but, who cares. Truth is I doubt our Chairman has the horsepower to pull off the promises he's making to the regional pilots and we have like 1/12,000th, or 0.000083_ that amount of power.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 672361)

Do I get me longevity back from my DCI days? ;)

Originally Posted by John Pennekamp (Post 672359)

But I would want to keep my LONGEVITY for pay and benefits putposes (including DOH for PASS BENEFITS).

Originally Posted by Justdoinmyjob (Post 672364)

The issue most DL pilots would have with this is that they would consider DOH for non revving as a windfall for you, (the ASA pilots.). Since you are currently behind them now as S3Cs, anything which puts a bunch of people in front of them would be viewed as a bad thing. Don't forget the ex-ASA ramp/CSR people that transferred over. They were not allowed to keep DOH for their benefits. I think that they would have an issue with it too.

Originally Posted by John Pennekamp (Post 672367)

We have only been S3c for about a year now! We were DOH for what, 8 years?!!!

But if THAT's the only sticking point, I'd gladly give it up to make it happen.