Originally Posted by Justdoinmyjob (Post 672370)

...Merge ASA/Comair by DOH, (or whatever methodology we agreed to,) and then staple to the bottom of the Delta list...

Originally Posted by alfaromeo (Post 671813)

It might be easier in this discussion if we start from a base of what we agree on. I would submit that these are points that maybe we can agree on, correct me if I am wrong:

1. Delta pilots have a contractual right to control all flying done under the DL code. Whether we "own" it or not is just semantics. We negotiated for that right so we can exercise that right.

2. The current whipsaw with 485,000 different DCI carriers is not serving Delta well and is not serving the pilots well, at any carrier. The DCI pilots are being thrown around like pawns as management teams try to undercut each other. This whipsaw has negative implications for pilots at mainline too. For Delta, this race to the bottom is not providing the service that a top tier airline should deliver.

3. Each pilot at each carrier makes decisions that are right for his circumstances in life. What is right for Pilot A is not right for Pilot B and so on. It makes little sense arguing which career decisions each other should make because you are all different people.

4. Merging carriers is a management function. Labor does not merge corporate entities. Labor merges seniority lists AFTER management decides on a corporate transaction. Trying to merge a seniority list without a corporate merger is pointless.

If you can accept some or all of those assertions, then perhaps you can decide on a course of action from there. My plan is:

1. Decide on a seniority integration process for as many DCI carriers that want to participate. This will make it easier to sell the remaining steps to management. If management is going to be convinced to move along this path, they won't deal with a US Air/America West style food fight over seniority.
2. Work with management to standardize the work rules, PBS, pay, etc. for all DCI carriers.
3. Work with management to merge participating DCI carriers into one entity with flow up flow down.
4. Finally merge the DCI entity into mainline

It took a long time to get into this mess and it will take a long time to get out. Some of the current DCI carriers will be dropped or out of business by the time this is done. We should strive to make sure that pilots always go along with planes in any transaction. We should also strive to make sure that pilots that are happy with their current situation have some type of fence protection for their current jobs for at least some period of time.

Don't know if this is possible or even practical, but I think we all will be better off under one company and one contract.

Originally Posted by Justdoinmyjob (Post 672370)

I thought it was a good way to go. The ASA reps I talked to about it didn't. They were more interested in pursuing the PID. Seems like we could have avoided the acrimonious relationship of the last 10-12 years, but live and learn.

Originally Posted by Lifeisgood (Post 672375)

Never going to fly. Delta pilots have to be selected by Delta standards.
It is a mistake to think that just because someone has 1000 PIC in the RJ he/she should be moved(deserves/entitled to/just as good as others) up to the majors.
Given a chance to interview on percentage basis of total qualified applicants - another story.

Originally Posted by hockeypilot44 (Post 672378)

Would Delta keep the bachelor's degree requirement? If you work for DCI and have no education, would you lose your job?

Originally Posted by Lifeisgood (Post 672375)

Never going to fly. Delta pilots have to be selected by Delta standards.
It is a mistake to think that just because someone has 1000 PIC in the RJ he/she should be moved(deserves/entitled to/just as good as others) up to the majors.
Given a chance to interview on percentage basis of total qualified applicants - another story.

Originally Posted by Justdoinmyjob (Post 672370)

Back when Delta bought ASA and Comair, I proposed basically the same thing. Merge ASA/Comair by DOH, (or whatever methodology we agreed to,) and then staple to the bottom of the Delta list. Everyone keeps DOH for pay and benis, but bids by system seniority. For the senior guys who don't want to give up their seats, they would be fenced off. They could not be displaced, but they also could not bid higher than left seat RJ.

I thought it was a good way to go. The ASA reps I talked to about it didn't. They were more interested in pursuing the PID. Seems like we could have avoided the acrimonious relationship of the last 10-12 years, but live and learn.

Originally Posted by John Pennekamp (Post 672383)

That was a pretty degrading thing to say. Do you really believe most regional pilots are "inferior"? What makes Delta Pilots so great? Knowing Plato personally was the only criteria to get hired for a long time. Seriously. I'd like to hear this.

It's attitudes like this that killed it last time, and will kill it again. When it all comes down to it all the talk is fluff. The majority of the Delta Pilot Group thinks we're inferior, and everything else is just an excuse. How sad.

And furthermore, if we don't meet your standards, but operate greater than 50% of your company's flights, then it sounds like you have a problem.

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 672398)

Life - you make a point many are overlooking.

Our Chairman has been promoting flow through agreements as alternative to real unity and mergers. But, we have not heard from management. Management hires pilots. Why do we think management will deliver on promises made by ALPA politicians?

ACL thinks management will go along to lower DCI costs, but I don't see them wanting to raise Delta's costs by carrying DCI pilots longevity to a even higher pay scale.

If anything Joe and John's insistence on leapfrogging Delta pilots who interviewed and got hired is so off putting that their opinion pushes me firmly towards Lee Moak's vision of a flow through where all is surrendered on the first day of Indoc class.

Although the unionist in me wishes to preserve longevity, I understand the resistance to unity when Joe and John start telling me "how it's gonna be." Frankly, unity is a lot easier to sell without Joe and John coming over here like boarding pirates. They have to understand that this is so wildly speculative that it really is pointless to debate here.