Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1531569)

Timbo,

Thanks for the information.

Pardon the vent ... but since we are on the topic. Our management does not seem to appreciate that flying is a little different job than the position they hold, with different sorts of responsibilities. Mr. Bastian might be able to come in the day after surgery, but are the decisions he makes nearly instantly irreversible with bent metal, a deviation, or a life in the balance?

Unlike manning a desk, there isn't a " <--- Backspace" on any airplane I've ever seen. Further, I don't know how many back to back all nighters Ed works which leave him in places where there is no place to eat, or if he shares a workspace with another executive seated 40 inches off his shoulder for 8 to 10 hours at a time. If he's a little under the weather and out of it he might say "uhm" more than normal while delivering a presentation. Perhaps he should consider that briefings are just a presentation while under motion, while operating machinery, reading AWABS, while talking to ATC getting clearances, running checklists, starting engines and talking to flight attendants ... mostly semi-simultaneously. They say humans don't multi task well ... how about a human with a head cold?

Further, do our executives obtain a medical for ongoing certification in their jobs?

IMHO, they fail to make a fair comparison. IMHO more pilots fly when they should not than sick out when they should fly (& maybe I'm a survey of one).

Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 1531534)

Here's more info on what is driving the CPO to call you sick puppies...

Seems some numbers wonk told RA that the Delta Pilot Group uses, on average, DOUBLE the "Industry Average" of sick days/hours/what have you. RA put out the word to the CP's to crack down on Sick Leave Abuse!!

The CP's found that "Double the Industry Average" thing a little hard to believe, so they did some research (what a concept!).

Turns out the other carriers used in the Industry Average all PAY their pilots their unused sick hours/days at the end of the year, or they can bank it and roll it over to the next year, and save it for a really rainy day, or an early retirement, like NWA used to be able to.

The CP told me, "Well of course if you give the pilot's an INCENTIVE to NOT use sick leave, they are not going to use as much, as a pilot group with a 'use it or lose it' type sick leave policy."

So...there you have it. RA thinks we use twice the Industry Average in sick leave, because some numbers geek who only looked at one metric said so, it must be true.

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1531569)

Timbo,

Thanks for the information.

Pardon the vent ... but since we are on the topic. Our management does not seem to appreciate that flying is a little different job than the position they hold, with different sorts of responsibilities. Mr. Bastian might be able to come in the day after surgery, but are the decisions he makes nearly instantly irreversible with bent metal, a deviation, or a life in the balance?

Unlike manning a desk, there isn't a " <--- Backspace" on any airplane I've ever seen. Further, I don't know how many back to back all nighters Ed works which leave him in places where there is no place to eat, or if he shares a workspace with another executive seated 40 inches off his shoulder for 8 to 10 hours at a time. If he's a little under the weather and out of it he might say "uhm" more than normal while delivering a presentation. Perhaps he should consider that briefings are just a presentation while under motion, while operating machinery, reading AWABS, while talking to ATC getting clearances, running checklists, starting engines and talking to flight attendants ... mostly semi-simultaneously. They say humans don't multi task well ... how about a human with a head cold?

Further, do our executives obtain a medical for ongoing certification in their jobs?

IMHO, they fail to make a fair comparison. IMHO more pilots fly when they should not than sick out when they should fly (& maybe I'm a survey of one).

Originally Posted by johnso29 (Post 1531578)

Technically Timbo, that's not a call made on a "Good Faith" basis. You received a call based on Sec 14.F.3.b, which gives us the 2 circumstances in which verification is required.

Verification of sickness under Section 14 F. 2. is required when:

a) a pilot has used more than 100 hours of unverified sick leave in a sick leave year, or

b) a pilot has been absent on a single sick occurrence for 15 or more consecutive days.

Good Faith is covered under Sec 14 F 4. Not trying to be a smart guy. Just clarifying the contract. :o

Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 1531523)

I know I got one two weeks ago...:rolleyes:

It had been more than our contractually allowed 15 days between my Sick call my Well call. Not 15 days of flying mind you, but 15 calandar days between sick and well. Only because I forgot to call in well until the day before my next trip.

About about 24 hours after I did call in well, I got a phone call from the ATL CPO, telling me that per the Contract, I would need to provide a Doctor's Note, since I was out sick for more than 15 days. If I had remembered about the requirement to provide a note, I could have called in well a couple days earlier and stayed below the 15 day limit.

So, all you Sicko's out there, be sure to mark your calandar the day you call in sick, then count forward 15 days, and mark that day. If you don't call in well prior to that day, you WILL get a call and you must provide a Doctor's Note. And there is a link on the DLNET page for you to print out the Sick Form they want you to have filled out by your doctor, so print it BEFORE you go see the doctor.

Originally Posted by johnso29 (Post 1531578)

Technically Timbo, that's not a call made on a "Good Faith" basis. You received a call based on Sec 14.F.3.b, which gives us the 2 circumstances in which verification is required.

Verification of sickness under Section 14 F. 2. is required when:

a) a pilot has used more than 100 hours of unverified sick leave in a sick leave year, or

b) a pilot has been absent on a single sick occurrence for 15 or more consecutive days.

Good Faith is covered under Sec 14 F 4. Not trying to be a smart guy. Just clarifying the contract. :o

Originally Posted by GunshipGuy (Post 1531614)

Timbo, I'm curious, did the company pay for you to see a doctor to get a doctor's note (downloadable) signed? And when you went to see the doctor was she able to give the company the documentation they wanted? To cut to the chase: it sounds like you didn't mean to, but incurred this requirement because you waited 15 days to call in well, and so you went to see the doc...but then when you saw her you were no longer sick. So how was the doc able to sign off on your being sick if she wasn't able to witness your condition at the time of said sickness (unless you did go see her earlier when you were sick)?

Sorry for the long winded inquiry...I'm just thinking about how this would go with my doc if I was in that situation.

GG: (calling scheduling) Fellas, sorry, I'm sick.
Scheduling: OK, (sure you are) call us when you're well.
GG: (trying to call scheduling 4 days later) [ring ring--no answer] They're swamped, poor guys. I'll call tomorrow.
GG: (10 days later) Hey, scheduling, I'm better now.
Scheduling: OK
CPO: Hey, GG, we need a doctor's note.
GG: Doc, I need a note saying I was sick.
Doc: You're not sick.
GG: Well, that makes sense because I feel good. By the way, I'm writing a check today because the full amount you charge me is being paid by my employer.

Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 1531626)

Gunship Guy, I was in uniform, signed in for my trip, when I went to the CPO to ask W. T. F was with that phone call and required note?

He told me about the need for a Doctor's Note due to the 15 day calendar thing. Well, of course I was well by then, so I asked what was I to do? He made a phone call and said, "Consider yourself educated."

No Doctor's note, but no harm, no foul, just know for the next time.

I was going to offer to go see their doctor and sick out of the trip I had just signed in for...

Originally Posted by Hillbilly (Post 1531635)

You get a note from your doctor and for general nature of the sickness it states something like 'patient reports having had xxxx symptoms, consistent with yyyy(sickness) on zzzz(dates).'

Since the pilot would have to go to the doctor to get the note required, he/she should pay for the cost of getting the note without processing through insurance, get a detailed receipt and submit the expense in iCrew for reimbursement under Section 14 F.5.