They are also hinting at c2k adjusted for inflation in c15. :confused:

I think you could read that in the same email if you wanted to....I reread the part I think you are referring to. But it's so imperceptible a hint I had to strain to infer it.....maybe? Say what you mean, mean what you say. Don't try and "hint" to intimate intention that you can later say was never there.

Couldn't have said it better.

There are two ways to cut this apple.

• One way is to leverage opportunities as they come to make what we can, incrementally.
• The other way is a long, drawn out fight.

I am seeing indications which suggest to me management may actually prefer the fight. If so, that indicates management may feel the pilots got the best of the last couple of rounds.

Having "labor problems" would likely cause a trend reversal in Delta's share price. I do not believe it in management's best interest to take us for granted.

Most rational pilots should do an earnings check, comparing 2012 to 2013 when we finish out the year. Does that money now, instead of 2015 make a difference? Is there a time value to money?

Further, I would argue rather than getting 3% and 3%, I would prefer an earlier deal. In my estimation, the Company is going to owe us something for non compliance in the Air France JV. Probably a year or so back I suggested we build a staffing model for non compliance and monetize every single job that did not happen from Widebody Captains down to the new hires. Yet, such a demand is not entirely without risk. Lets say Alitalia folds ... does that pop Delta right back into compliance? (I don't know, but projected noncompliance has been an issue ever since we tried to capture our share with the addition of AZ). Would we want to mediate when the situation might resolve itself before the process could be pushed to completion? Or, would we rather negotiate a deal which has a certain benefit to our pilots?

In summation, we may have absolutely no choice about traditional labor negotiations ... management may push us there. But, if there is a window of opportunity we are right to explore it and exploit it.

BB, you're much more cerebral on this subject than I, but perhaps to a fault at times: I don't think anyone has attempted to make a case for the notion that management felt the pilots got the better of them in the last round. If anyone thinks management was of the opinion they got taken advantage of in C2012 then those guys are even better than I gave them credit for. If anything, they were more likely to have given more than what the DALPA negotiators were able to do for themselves out of sense that skinning them too much would have made the vote closer than what was preferred.:D

Understand, I am not saying management's view is correct. They seem to be backing away from "constructive engagement." This is just my opinion (and there is a lot I do not know about this dynamic). I'm just comparing where we are on our VA JV, TA JV and FAR 117 and noticing that management seems to have lost the pace.

ALPA wants to be very rational and reasoned so that it can keep moving forward on matters of importance to the Delta pilots. Despite the changes in the Chairman's Office, the Negotiating Committee, our MEC and their supporting experts have been in position and thoroughly ready.

IMHO ALPA's position is just good business. Try to do deals when folks are at the table and need something done. Full Section 6 is a bit like a business deal falling victim to a lawsuit. Sure, you might win, but only after a protracted legal process during which time you're spending your money and not enjoying the potential revenue that a deal might produce.

In plain terms, why fight if you don't have to fight?

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/atta...7&d=1386219800

As of this morning there's a Ford Mustang GT, Performance Pack, which I want to pay for at the end of 2015, not 2018. It would be a very good year if the only question in my mind was "convertible, or coupe?" "Blue, Red, or take a chance on that cool gray/green color ?"

I figure V8 420 HP (probably under rated 460 or so) engines are soon to be a thing of the past under CAFE requirements. Manufacturers just are going to take the hit ... so, as ALPA would say, there is a "window of opportunity" to grab one of these things. Prefer sooner than later.

AMR had labor problems. UCAL had labor problems. LCC had labor problems. SAVE went on strike to get a contract. What was the result over the last 4 years for these airlines with labor problems?

AMR's bankruptcy is producing a return to existing equity owners, which is quite unlike previous bankruptcies where shareowners were wiped out.

UCAL has seen its share price go from $9 to nearly $40.

LCC has had one of the top stock returns of all airlines going from $4 to $22.

SAVE has had the largest network expansion and growth.

Over the same timeframe Delta went from $10 to $28.

While I agree that it's not in management's best interest to take us for granted, I don't agree with your corollary that labor problems will cause a stock price reversal.

BTW, SWA is 15 months past their amendable date.


Agreed.


There's always two parties (at a minimum) to our negotiations. Management may push, or the decisions of the Delta pilots or our MEC may push us there. It'd be a shame to be unable to explore or exploit opportunities due our choices, imo.

That's right. It's an unfortunate truth as to how and why management might be seeking a decoupling from proactive engagement. US Air in particular serves an example of management exploiting tactical errors by labor. (Hopefully American's deal will be executed soon and they'll be back in the game, helping increase the comparisons)

Frankly, the best thing we can do it tie them up with scope language so they have no choice but to deal with us.

Oh, and if you like Fords, your dealer will take pre-orders February 1st. ALPA PUB track day! ALPA PUB track day! ALPA PUB track day!

Translation: Never, ever fight management over anything. They have all the cards and labor has none. But we still need DALPA to be our pretend union so that we have a single source of getting very small bites...quickly.

BTW, Southwest pilots fly all Southwest passengers.

Carl

What Boeing wants your local politicians to give it from your money to to outsource work to your State (if you don't happen to live near Washington, or an IAM outpost):

1. A single 4.2 million-square-foot facility that would build the entire airplane, costing $7 billion to $10 billion for the building and equipment.
2. Or two plants in different places: one at 3.1 million square feet, costing $4 billion to $6 billion, for fuselage and final assembly, and a second, 1.1 million-square-foot plant, costing $2 billion to $4 billion, to build 777X's 114-foot-long carbon wing.
3. In both cases, Boeing says, "transportation is one of the most critical site selection determinants," with air, road and rail links.

"The ideal site would be located immediately adjacent to a major international airport," with a 9,000-foot runway capable of landing 777X and 747-400 freighter airplanes (Lambert-St. Louis International Airport would apparently qualify). Boeing also wants "easy access to a major highway" and a dedicated direct rail spur into the site for parts delivery.

Listed as "Desired:" A seaport with the ability to handle container ships and regular international ocean carrier service, presumably to easily handle shipments of parts from overseas suppliers.

The document also lists "significant institutional factors" that it will evaluate, saying "company preference is toward a location that will share in the cost of capital expenditures" such as buying, building and equipping the plant. It also lists overall cost of doing business, workforce availability, quality and cost (though it makes no mention of union workers one way or the other) and a stable regulatory environment. And there's a list of "desired incentives." Among them:

• Site at no cost, or very low cost, to project.
• Facilities at no cost, or significantly reduced cost.
• Infrastructure improvements provided by the location
• Full support in worker training
• "Entire applicable tax structure including corporate income tax, franchise tax, property tax, sales/use tax, business license/gross receipts tax and excise taxes to be significantly reduced."

So isn't this great? 10 Billion gift, then pay no taxes and get infrastructure built to the door.
Ain't outsourcing great? But, I am not sure how you bring the Pacific, or Atlantic, Ocean to St. Louis. Ugh, Douglas .... hey, how about Long Beach?