Nah, you can do both. Is the question too hard for you?

Here it is again:


Carl

You were never a fence sitter Dorfman. Never. Let's keep it real shall we?

Carl

Leine/Bar,

If for argument sake you are assuming the DPA account of events to be true, why ignore the part where Tim asked the individual to identify himself and apologize?


Scoop

We have lots of pilots screw up much worse than this on a regular basis. I can't ever recall a situation where the pilot was made to publicly confess his sin to the world. My reference to professional standards was my roundabout way of saying there might be a more constructive way to handle it than "accept my demand or I'm turning you over to the FBI." What if the next time Tim decides to call the FAA because one of our pilots had a deviation. In my mine its the same idea. Not saying the individual (if he actually exists) was right and that he shouldn't apologize. I'm just saying Tim was awfully quick to escalate this thing.

All that said, given what I've seen of the crew van news updates recently, I'm skeptical that everything in today's update is squeaky clean. In fact, I'm suspicious that some of it is downright fabricated.

Time will tell, but I sense this is shaping up to be another DPA folly.

First off you all missed a good MNF game while getting all worked up over hacking. Silly. You have all day tomorrow when there is no football on to do that!

More important, Bars post. Wouldn't be surprised if he is right. Constructive engagement has never been a sound tactic. When our interests align with managements, then there is no reason not to work together. USAirways bid, Im/Ex bank, ME customs pre-clearance facility, etc.

When our interest do not align, we should be vocal and be firm. Good example is when now Sleepy Ed announced to Wall Street that pilot pay and benefits have been permanently reset. When he did that, it was good business for management and Delta.

DALPA would be fully in their right to release a statement detailing the amount the pilots have given from BK to present without obtaining a return on our investment... yet. Then, finish the statement emphasizing that we will have to have a complete return on our investment in 2015. That's it. And, for pilots, that is good business. And, it's not personal or attacking management, it isn't being obstructionist either. It is just business.

BB also stated a concern over the state of the economy going forward. It can be argued that the economy still really hasn't fully recovered at all. Ben is still blowing bubbles into the monetary system. During this time, in the new era of unbundled fees, Delta has booked RECORD profits. They will likely continue to be profitable to some degree.

Bar, haven't studied it lately, been very preoccupied. Does Delta make much if any operational profit currently? It was my understanding that in 2011 they made $937M in baggage fees alone.

Point is, this trend is growing and will continue as they find more fees and extras that they will sell to the traveller. Yes, management might drag this out. If they do, remember they are doing so because it is good business for them to do so. No big deal. As long as we are vocal, firm, and conduct our selves in the same manner, and pursue our goals that are good business for us.

So perhaps constructive engagement is gone. Perhaps that is not such a bad thing at all.

For all of you history buffs out there:

150 years ago today, Abraham Lincoln delivered the Gettysburg Address.


Ok. Back to your regularly scheduled food fight. :D

FYI. Hacking is a felony, not the kind of thing Pro Stan is for. Pro ALPA or DPA we don't need these type people around and letting a law enforcement agency handle it is the thing to do.

Leine,

I agree, time well tell. No use speculating. This will be very interesting one way or another.

Scoop

You make a very good point. Based on that statement he is totally contradicting himself with not accepting the attempted settlement of this issue. It should be noted though, that if this hacking was the work of ALPA conspirators and they failed to agree to come forward with a public apology you wouldn't accept TC's word that they admitted they were responsible, would you?

As for those trying to draw comparisons of how this action (allegedly) isn't worse than what some pilots have done and not been sought out for, well, can you give me an example? Where has a pilot received forgiveness for intentionally going out of his way with action with the intent to cause harm and financial costs to another party? I'm not saying it hasn't happened (an attack forgiven and everyone walks away friends again), but I have never heard of anything like that here.

Not sure the DPA picked the right department to investigate this one...?

FBI Internet Crime Center (IC3) FAQ page

Q: Do you have a definition of Internet crime that I can refer to?

Internet crime is defined as any illegal activity involving one or more components of the Internet, such as websites, chat rooms, and/or email. Internet crime involves the use of the Internet to communicate false or fraudulent representations to consumers. These crimes may include, but are not limited to, advance-fee schemes, non-delivery of goods or services, computer hacking, or employment/business opportunity schemes.

Internet Crime Schemes

Current and ongoing Internet trends and schemes identified by the Internet Crime Complaint Center along with its description:

Auction Fraud
Auction Fraud — Romania
Counterfeit Cashier's Check
Credit Card Fraud
Debt Elimination
Parcel Courier Email Scheme
Employment/Business Opportunities
Escrow Services Fraud
Identity Theft
Internet Extortion
Investment Fraud
Lotteries
Nigerian Letter or "419"
Phishing/Spoofing
Ponzi/Pyramid
Reshipping
Spam
Third Party Receiver of Funds

Is social engineering some dudes password a major internet crime or did Timmy just use ihatealpa as his password