Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
09-12-2009 | 12:50 PM
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From: 767er Captain
If I remember correctly, you're an architect by training. Can you build a beautiful building without a foundation?
If you think you can get to a sustainable C2K plus by using the practices of the past, I hope you will not be the architect of our strategy. Nothing personal!
Oh, and you misrepresent my point of view. I said we have to find a way to extract sustainable value...I'm neither a surrender monkey nor a chest thumper. I'm a realist that is currently undercompensated for the services I provide.
If you think you can get to a sustainable C2K plus by using the practices of the past, I hope you will not be the architect of our strategy. Nothing personal!
Oh, and you misrepresent my point of view. I said we have to find a way to extract sustainable value...I'm neither a surrender monkey nor a chest thumper. I'm a realist that is currently undercompensated for the services I provide.
You win.. I surrender.
09-12-2009 | 12:54 PM
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From: A-320A
09-12-2009 | 12:57 PM
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From: 767er Captain
Ok, here is math simplified just a bit. C2k 757/767 rate was around 265 at its peak. We took a 32 percent pay cut. New rate 180 an hour. Then a 14 percent cut. New rate 155 an hour.
Your demand is for 345 an hour. C2k plus 30%. Current 767/767 rate after several raises is 168 an hour. Double that is 336 dollars an hour.
As you mentioned I don't know how they do math in TN but the hunting dogs must be really poor. This dog hunts and hunts hard.
As far as how long we wait for a impasse we can't just have one declared. We have to petition the NMB to declare the impasse. Historically contracts have run 2 years over the amendable date at Delta. Many contracts have gone as long as 6 years over. Take a look at ASA as a example. The NMB will not release us to strike if they feel our position is unreasonable. Asking for C2K plus 30% would be viewed as exactly that. We will be put on ice just like the American pilots have been. 2017 might be conservative!
Your contract ideas are not unusual and our held by many pilots. In the end however they wont put the most money in your pocket and get you the best quality of life. I would hope our opener would be well thought out and provide meanful gains in both pay and work rules while sticking with the economic realities in the industry. If it is we can perhaps get a contract a within a year of the amendable date. If we go the just so no route with a radical opener from a radical MEC then you can kiss a contract goodbye for a long long time and in the end we will end up with basically the same final product just years delayed.
Your demand is for 345 an hour. C2k plus 30%. Current 767/767 rate after several raises is 168 an hour. Double that is 336 dollars an hour.
As you mentioned I don't know how they do math in TN but the hunting dogs must be really poor. This dog hunts and hunts hard.
As far as how long we wait for a impasse we can't just have one declared. We have to petition the NMB to declare the impasse. Historically contracts have run 2 years over the amendable date at Delta. Many contracts have gone as long as 6 years over. Take a look at ASA as a example. The NMB will not release us to strike if they feel our position is unreasonable. Asking for C2K plus 30% would be viewed as exactly that. We will be put on ice just like the American pilots have been. 2017 might be conservative!
Your contract ideas are not unusual and our held by many pilots. In the end however they wont put the most money in your pocket and get you the best quality of life. I would hope our opener would be well thought out and provide meanful gains in both pay and work rules while sticking with the economic realities in the industry. If it is we can perhaps get a contract a within a year of the amendable date. If we go the just so no route with a radical opener from a radical MEC then you can kiss a contract goodbye for a long long time and in the end we will end up with basically the same final product just years delayed.
09-12-2009 | 12:58 PM
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From: A-320A
09-12-2009 | 01:01 PM
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From: 767er Captain
09-12-2009 | 01:12 PM
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From: DAL 330
09-12-2009 | 01:23 PM
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From: 765-A
*sigh* OK.. I am really not as radical as my posts come across. I recognize the business aspect of all of this. ANd as a matter of fact, it is "just business" I guess I was having a bad day in one respect, and I let my frustration get the better of me. I've said enough about this, and I'll shut up now.
The game isn't until next week. Yiu guys are still tied, 10-10. Is your TV on delay or is mine?
Go Gators!
09-12-2009 | 02:18 PM
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From: 767er Captain
Oh, and it's 16-10 UCLA. I hope Tyler Bray graduates this winter and shows up in January 
09-12-2009 | 03:06 PM
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From: Flying the SEC
What was that 4th and goal call? How about a naked bootleg or a roll out pass to the fullback or TE?
That was a fumble!!!
That was a fumble!!!
Last edited by satchip; 09-12-2009 at 03:09 PM. Reason: upon further review
09-12-2009 | 03:11 PM
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Outstanding point. Except I wasn't solely talking about DAL pilots who remain neutral for the AFA efforts to organize. In fact, the main point that I was making about our pilots and the AFA was that there are some who are lobbying FA's to vote no, which is hardly neutral.
In response to Bar, my post really asks why there seems to be an increasing amout of pilots who don't respect the unions (already on property, at any company, in any industry) or their members. Look on our message board and see how our pilots talk about UAW workers. I sense there is an increasing anti-(non pilot)union sentiment among pilots.
My post had nothing to do with stopping people from doing what they want if and how they want. It has everything to do with our attitude toward other unions and their members.
New K Now
In response to Bar, my post really asks why there seems to be an increasing amout of pilots who don't respect the unions (already on property, at any company, in any industry) or their members. Look on our message board and see how our pilots talk about UAW workers. I sense there is an increasing anti-(non pilot)union sentiment among pilots.
My post had nothing to do with stopping people from doing what they want if and how they want. It has everything to do with our attitude toward other unions and their members.
New K Now
2) If you find some of my posts on another threadconcerning this topic, I don't think this is the right time, but I think the F/A groups need to be merged first, then develop a consensus. I definitely think both our F/A's and our pilots have benefitted from the status quo. I also think the South F/A's will work better with a post SOC vote, on their own terms. I have no desire, nor will I get any benefit from, our F/A's unionizing. I will, however, support them once they figure out which way to go.
3) I haven't looked on our board lately, and wasn't aware of an anti-IAM sentiment developing, so I can't comment on it. From my perspective, I think there are a lot of cultural and human nature issues involved. Some motivations behind the "un-enthusiasm" about AFA (and perhaps IAM?) are fairly straightforward and pragmatic, some of it is not so pretty. Deep down, I think we've enjoyed being the only union of importance at Delta. While the relationship between us, the F/A's, and management has been complex (just as complex as the AMFA fiasco, I suppose), it has worked well, and probably much better than at many airlines. I think this relationship will evolve once we work fully together, and I'm willing to wait and see which way we go, and which way the other groups go. In the meantime, I suggest we refrain from taking anything other than a neutral stance WRT other groups, and I suggest we keep an open mind towards each other, and how we've behaved with other groups until now.
Last edited by Sink r8; 09-12-2009 at 04:51 PM.
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