Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
03-03-2014, 05:59 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
so Junglebus 4 day is 26+, 10 legs, 15-16 hour overnights.
now to check ATL M88 4 day.... mostly 22-23 hours, 14 legs most of the time, overnights thanks to 117 now 11-18 hours.
so, long range jumbo RJ trips dont seem that bad at all, in fact, IF JBs four day was indicative of trip construction possibilities then the jumbo RJ trips would be an improvement.
SO if its not the trip construction then what is it about jumbo RJs we wouldnt want? is it that theyre not as advanced as mainline jets like the 88?
okay, maybe its too advanced?
now to check ATL M88 4 day.... mostly 22-23 hours, 14 legs most of the time, overnights thanks to 117 now 11-18 hours.
so, long range jumbo RJ trips dont seem that bad at all, in fact, IF JBs four day was indicative of trip construction possibilities then the jumbo RJ trips would be an improvement.
SO if its not the trip construction then what is it about jumbo RJs we wouldnt want? is it that theyre not as advanced as mainline jets like the 88?
okay, maybe its too advanced?
Last edited by forgot to bid; 03-03-2014 at 06:15 AM.
03-03-2014, 05:59 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
I don't believe TC for a nanosecond. There will always be a vote "just around the corner"...but strangely enough I don't think that there ever will be one. But the DPA will also never go away, because ultimately it is about one thing: TC's obsession and anger about the fact that he was furloughed a few years ago, and blames NWA/Delta and ALPA with nearly every waking thought.
The worse part is that this is not leading to a unified pilot force that is the most fundamental element in securing a great contract. But I don't think TC cares. While ALPA national and our own DALPA are correctly focusing on the Emirates and Norwegian Air schemes that could annihilate our industry, the DPA continues to look like a bunch of buffoons, more interested in who hacked their website than in the long term prosperity and viability of this profession.
So...hey DPA, I am asking you to call for a vote and resolve this, or go away and once again support your current representative body, which is DALPA. If you win the election, I will be a good member of the union, just as I like to think that I am now.
But please, let's have some closure here!
The worse part is that this is not leading to a unified pilot force that is the most fundamental element in securing a great contract. But I don't think TC cares. While ALPA national and our own DALPA are correctly focusing on the Emirates and Norwegian Air schemes that could annihilate our industry, the DPA continues to look like a bunch of buffoons, more interested in who hacked their website than in the long term prosperity and viability of this profession.
So...hey DPA, I am asking you to call for a vote and resolve this, or go away and once again support your current representative body, which is DALPA. If you win the election, I will be a good member of the union, just as I like to think that I am now.
But please, let's have some closure here!
03-03-2014, 06:01 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Not if we have to pay 1 red cent to get 'em. For goodness' sake, pay attention. The regional airline experiment is imploding before your very eyes.
03-03-2014, 06:04 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2009
Position: C560XL/XLS/XLS+
Posts: 1,278
Exactly, I believe management is going to WANT to bring them in house. Last year fewer than 70 CFI's were issued. This from an FAA inspector.
03-03-2014, 06:04 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Stay THIRSTY, my friends!
Posts: 1,898
My pension was valued at over $1 million. I have to disagree with that. We do need to have all DAL flying done by DAL pilots period, but the loss of the DB plan was significant for the top third of the list. Those that are coming on board now are going to do very well with the DC plan we have in place, especially if the numbers % wise increase.
03-03-2014, 06:06 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
03-03-2014, 06:08 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2009
Position: C560XL/XLS/XLS+
Posts: 1,278
The extra 5 years of work more than make up for that, esp. when you take into consideration the note sale. Age 65, the scope sale, PERPs, all of this, was paid for by the lower 2/3 of the list in furloughs and career expectations. You are correct that those coming on now will not feel the loss, assuming they aren't derailed by other threats to our jobs...
03-03-2014, 06:20 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: DAL FO
Posts: 2,165
While I disagree that they will WANT to bring them in-house, they will probably NEED to bring them in-house to ensure that flying is staffed.
What I'm concerned about, is that the 9E-type agreements become the favored solution. Clearly mgmt teams are attempting to use this carrot as a means to keep pilots off the mainline longevity scale at significantly depressed rates.
I believe that the coming decade will provide the opportunity to turn this career around. We, collectively as a profession, need to ensure that we make the most of these opportunities. I'm not sure exactly how to go about it, but allowing an off-list C scale (9E et al) is not an acceptable solution. I'm heartened by the EGL and XJT groups rejection of their BS contracts. The more regional pilots refuse to accept substandard living conditions, the better our collective leverage becomes for recovering the flying - to everyone's benefit.
Given the 9E precedent though, it seems like the only way to bring it all back home is if they feel some crushing pain staffing-wise. We need to have our strategy in place when the company comes asking for help with a solution. The only answer IMO is "bring all that flying to mainline and offer those pilots jobs at the bottom of the Delta seniority list."
Sooner or later the various regionals are going to begin defaulting on their performance obligations because they can't staff the airplanes. That will provide Delta the leverage necessary to reclaim the airframes (ie get out of the contracts Freedom style.) Once Delta, the corporation, decides that they are taking over the flying, there is no DFR conversation or Comair power-play shenanigans. If Delta wants/needs to get this done, it will be done. We MUST have our solution/suggestion ready when they come to us.
03-03-2014, 06:26 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: DAL FO
Posts: 2,165
I don't now look at the extra 5 years of work as a benefit, more like a requirement. I would have gladly taken my $1 million plus lump sum and 10k per month annuity along with 401k savings at 60. We could argue this all day, but the bottom line is we really have 3 seniority lists or more. The top third who want $, the middle third who want $ and for the top third to retire, and the bottom third who want hiring, $, seat progression, and not to get furloughed. There are guys here hired after 1999 who have seen furloughs, stagnation, etc. So when I fly I don't complain about what I have lost as I believe there are those who have sacrificed an awful lot more than me. Sorry for the long post.
You bring up a good point though. We all need to realize that it's not "all about me" and that there are plenty of others on the list that have a different set of priorities. If we can all keep that in mind going into C2015 there could be less in-fighting. Putting ourselves in each other's shoes for a minute is important as we will all have to compromise on something due to the collective wishes of the group. We're simply too diverse demographically to please everyone on every issue.
03-03-2014, 06:31 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
70? Was a zero missing from that? Not saying I don't believe you, but that sounds awfully low.
While I disagree that they will WANT to bring them in-house, they will probably NEED to bring them in-house to ensure that flying is staffed.
What I'm concerned about, is that the 9E-type agreements become the favored solution. Clearly mgmt teams are attempting to use this carrot as a means to keep pilots off the mainline longevity scale at significantly depressed rates.
I believe that the coming decade will provide the opportunity to turn this career around. We, collectively as a profession, need to ensure that we make the most of these opportunities. I'm not sure exactly how to go about it, but allowing an off-list C scale (9E et al) is not an acceptable solution. I'm heartened by the EGL and XJT groups rejection of their BS contracts. The more regional pilots refuse to accept substandard living conditions, the better our collective leverage becomes for recovering the flying - to everyone's benefit.
Given the 9E precedent though, it seems like the only way to bring it all back home is if they feel some crushing pain staffing-wise. We need to have our strategy in place when the company comes asking for help with a solution. The only answer IMO is "bring all that flying to mainline and offer those pilots jobs at the bottom of the Delta seniority list."
Sooner or later the various regionals are going to begin defaulting on their performance obligations because they can't staff the airplanes. That will provide Delta the leverage necessary to reclaim the airframes (ie get out of the contracts Freedom style.) Once Delta, the corporation, decides that they are taking over the flying, there is no DFR conversation or Comair power-play shenanigans. If Delta wants/needs to get this done, it will be done. We MUST have our solution/suggestion ready when they come to us.
While I disagree that they will WANT to bring them in-house, they will probably NEED to bring them in-house to ensure that flying is staffed.
What I'm concerned about, is that the 9E-type agreements become the favored solution. Clearly mgmt teams are attempting to use this carrot as a means to keep pilots off the mainline longevity scale at significantly depressed rates.
I believe that the coming decade will provide the opportunity to turn this career around. We, collectively as a profession, need to ensure that we make the most of these opportunities. I'm not sure exactly how to go about it, but allowing an off-list C scale (9E et al) is not an acceptable solution. I'm heartened by the EGL and XJT groups rejection of their BS contracts. The more regional pilots refuse to accept substandard living conditions, the better our collective leverage becomes for recovering the flying - to everyone's benefit.
Given the 9E precedent though, it seems like the only way to bring it all back home is if they feel some crushing pain staffing-wise. We need to have our strategy in place when the company comes asking for help with a solution. The only answer IMO is "bring all that flying to mainline and offer those pilots jobs at the bottom of the Delta seniority list."
Sooner or later the various regionals are going to begin defaulting on their performance obligations because they can't staff the airplanes. That will provide Delta the leverage necessary to reclaim the airframes (ie get out of the contracts Freedom style.) Once Delta, the corporation, decides that they are taking over the flying, there is no DFR conversation or Comair power-play shenanigans. If Delta wants/needs to get this done, it will be done. We MUST have our solution/suggestion ready when they come to us.
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