CGfalconHerc,

This is where you and I get crossed up. JC and Ford did not form the RJDC. They were on opposing sides of the spectrum. Further, no offer of help was ever refused by the RJDC or Dan Ford. In fact, Dan Ford told JC Lawson his attempt at leveraging the furloughees was wrong and would not work. Dan Ford was not a Status Rep, he was a line pilot. He did not represent anyone, except himself. JC Lawson was an ALPA EVP. His antipathy towards Dan Ford was not unlike our MEC's view of the DPA leadership.

I've not gotten into the details of how I would propose extending our list down, but, Pan Am's example with Ransome (Pan Am Express) serves as one example which could be looked at. Since pilots like to bid (and do not like to be forced) I would propose to let the express guys keep their number within their express system. There would also be a system seniority number given which would be the result of the Delta list + (express guys by DOH). The mainline bids would run off the system seniority number. Eventually, when a guy could hold a mainline job, he could bid up. Conversely if there were displacements, they would use the system seniority number in the same fashion. In plain terms, such a system would allow pilots to bid for what they wanted. (by the way, I stole that idea lock, stock and barrel from Dan Ford who you claim demanded DOH on our list ...)

The "RJ Defense Coalition" gained it's name as a result of the Contract 2000 scope metrics which did not work from inception. To explain; the ratio of mainline to RJ flying was basically 1/3 to 2/3. With 500+ new RJ's coming from a prior order, the Delta fleet would have had to grown by 1,500+ to keep up. It seemed everyone on the express side of the house knew contract 2000 could not function as designed without major changes. The RJ guys figured "their" airplane order was going to get cancelled so that Delta could remain in compliance. Thus the name ... the RJ Defense Coalition.

They had hoped to secure an ally, and funding, from Bombardier. Bombardier's response is that Delta was the customer and Delta was taking the airplanes (insert sound of slammed door).

If course we know the history. Almost immediately (within 6 months) Contract 2000's scope provisions began to fail and ALPA always provided scope relaxation in time to accept the deliveries of airplanes scheduled all the way back with the 1999 order.

IMHO there have been times we have really failed to do our homework. We are on the edge of another opportunity where we need to do our homework and be prepared. This problem will be solved, as they all are. ALPA simply has the choice of whether to participate on the front end (as we did with great success in Delta's merger history), or if we choose to be reactionary and try to leverage something from the changes being imposed on us (as we did following Contract 2000).

Seems to me our leadership has a well developed skill set in this area. I hope they will engage.

I've always posted about this on here. The solution is to turn in your DPA card. Yeah, the DPA sucks, but it can be fixed, ALPA can not.

Are you kidding?

DPA doesn't suck, it simply doesn't exist. Placing your hopes behind a non-entity is not a strategy. It is our responsibility to fix what we have - NOT run away from a mess and hope that something, anything, even nothing (in the case of DPA) will be better.

Mesabah,

You would like that :)

Unfortunately, you know that's not the answer. You know ALPA has worked to make the "craft and class" distinction and you've basically stated your support for something better than a staple through the NMB process.

The DPA has stated support for taking back some flying which they deem is more desirable than other flying. The DPA does not come at it from a perspective of unity. They are simply predatory and believe that they are greater predator than you.

You also likely realize their platform is nonsensical, which is likely to result in their failure at the bargaining table. Even worse for the Delta pilots, your airline would be equals with us, your negotiator occupying the ALPA seat that the DPA would like to see us abandon to you.

I know you don't love us, but please do not encourage that fate on us.

The DPA can not be fixed. For one, from it's inception it has taken an "us v them" approach to Delta flying. The DPA is absolutely ignorant of the economics ... it's not that they will not do their homework, it is that they do not even know where to start. Further, they are highly secretive and autocratic. As an example, both the DPA and ALPA are currently about the business of selecting negotiators. Lets compare the two approaches:

DPA: Their PR man states that it is unethical for him to tell us who the DPA will select to hire as it's professional negotiators; that the mere mention of their name might create conflicts with Delta management. (and apologize if I did not get this exactly right, but the point is ... ) The DPA will not tell Delta pilots who is on their short list, or provide the backgrounds of those selected for our consideration of who will represent us at the table. (Just about everyone's guess is that Lee Seeham's law firm, which is one of the few who do this sort of thing for airline pilots is at the top of the list, but that has not been confirmed ... so in other words, we don't know and should not ask who will represent us at the table)

ALPA: Provided a list of candidates and their backgrounds. All have exemplary service records and experience. A very sharp and capable group. LEC meetings have been open to discuss these candidates and feedback to the voting Reps has been solicited repeatedly. The candidates will present at the MEC meeting, which is an open meeting. Not only are members invited to attend, but there are a couple of nice receptions for more grip n grin time where one on one conversations are easily to facilitate.

We all want to restore our profession. If the DPA was the train going to that destination, I would get on board. But it just isn't. In fact, I do not expect it to make it out of the station. The ALPA train is not going in the precise place I want, but it is close ... and the train Conductor takes the input of his members. The ALPA train goes where the majority of members demand.

Great point. If a DCI CR9 at C45 in ATL is having a problem, they might not be able to go next door to the next DCI CR9 and continue on. Or if a pilot on that DCI CR9 has to be replaced, they can't just grab the nearest available DCI CR9 pilot. Different airlines means they might as well be different airplanes.

So with DCI you basically have 7 airlines, 7 groups of flight attendants, 7 training departments, 7 flight ops, 7 scheduling (probably read that as 7 schedulers), 7 dispatch groups, 7 groups of line maintenance, 7 groups of heavy maintenance, 6 unions, all with 10 non-interchangeable groups of pilots operating 4 types of jets in a 500+ jet fleet at the beck and call of Delta's network group.

With mainline you have 1 airline, 1 group of flight attendants, 1 training department, 1 flight ops, 1 scheduling group, 1 dispatch group, 1 group of maintenance all with 9 non-interchangeable groups of pilots under 1 union operating a 700+ jet fleet at the beck and call of our own network group.

Put it that way Bar and I don't get how we're remotely considered the inefficient ones.

1) We can't verify that without seeing survey results, but if I had to bet the house I would assume it is more true than not.

2) That's a double edged sword. You want unity, pilots might not, then what becomes of Bar's unity? Or what if Tsqaures LGBT pay proved to be a winner because it'd require 15% more pilots and the company was for it, but a majority of the pilots were not because of a selfish reason, then what should the union do?

Probably the best place for the DPA is as an DALPA watchdog. Probably too late for that now.

THE PILOT SHORTAGE IS HERE

http://cdn0.dailydot.com/uploaded/im...n-paul-gif.gif

Then we get these guys involved to solve the regional pilot pilot shortage...

http://texasclimatenews.org/wp/wp-co..._capitol_2.jpg

Solution 1, repeal the 1500 hour rule.

Solution 2, eliminate the age of pilot retirements, if you can get a 1st class medical, you're good to go.

Solution 3, some Doctors become very rich.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/wash...npaulcrowd.jpg

That's a better schedule than any month I had on the DC-9.

A 27 hour 4 day with landings in cities that had professional sports teams? Unheard of.

Bar..I don't pretend to know what goes through Dan Fords head, and I really don't care. You seem to know a lot of detail that DL furlougees were not privy to while we were out on the street. I'll take your word for it that guys like you were offering alternatives to JC's vision that would have benefited both sides..too bad that opportunity was lost.

Leroy..I don't mean to paint all RJ guys as lottery winners, the last 3 yrs have been tough for everybody. But you must admit, all DCI carriers enjoyed explosive growth as mainline trashed 73/72/M88's, allowing many rj drivers to log 1000's of hr's of TPIC and then, take that time to jump to SWA, FDX, JBLU, UPS. There was a benefit.

You guys know where I stand. I can't keep up on my cellphone. Let's not waste this opportunity to Restore the Profession.

That would have been the founders' path to relevance. Unfortunately, their ego decided it was better to go for the blaze of glory ending.