Airline Pilot Central Forums - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

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I stopped by the DTW pilot meeting yesterday. The 717 discussion was interesting, a couple of take aways:

They will expand DTW 717 later this year. They don't want deliveries to outpace crew training, or crew training to outpace deliveries

They aren't necessarily going to operate the 717 as a DC-9 replacement. (Ie, hub to nearby out stations and back). The trips sounded a lot like the E175 discussion we had a few pages back.

Other bases beyond DTW, MSP, and ATL are possible, depends on what network wants. Sounded like there could be a NYC base and a west coast base.

Quote:

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1594824)

So take half of the 7ER, 330, 765, 744 and 777 FO list and hand it over to MPLs?

Even more worrisome, make those MPLs based in Europe or Asia ala Norwegian.

"We have to do it compete on costs. You don't want that cruise FO job anyway, do you know what pay ALPA would have to agree to compete?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by iaflyer (Post 1594826)

There is an MSP 717 base?

I guess SEA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iaflyer (Post 1594826)

MSP?

Filler

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elvis90 (Post 1594781)

Where do Captains come from if MPL's become the norm? Likewise what happens when the Captain becomes incapacitated and the MPL "Cruise Pilot" has to actually land? Hmmm...

Let the over 65 guys do. It would be like non-reving to lay overs. I keed!

Quote:

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1594832)

There is an MSP 717 base?

I guess SEA.

I misspoke - I was thinking about them operating the 717 like the DC-9 which had a MSP base.

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzpat (Post 1593878)

BB,

I think we both can agree that we're on board with unity. I think we can also agree that our father's service to aviation is admirable and noteworthy. My dad served 33 years in the Air Force, flew in Vietnam, logged 15,000 hours and retired as a two-star. He's a pretty cool dude too. That's why I do what I do. Not really relevant to what's happening today at Delta.

Let's get back to the point. There are no "thank you's" owed from former DAL furloughees to those hired after the fact. None. And the fact that some, not you, but some are beeyatching about the furloughed guys coming back into positions that their contractually-guaranteed agreement offers them is reprehensible. Seniority is seniority. That's not an emotive concept. I just lost four positions in LA. You know what, right on. They deserve it, as did I in 2008.

Your father may have been furloughed and had company's change. I know it affected your family. I was furloughed, understood it, and moved on. It affected mine as well. Negatively, trust me.

My point is yours. We must go forward in a solidly unified manner. I don't know who you are, I assume you can gather from my user name who I am. Your peers gained from the after affects of 9/11. Mine suffered.

I think we're of a like mind here. But, please, don't try to paint those DAL/NWA furloughees with the same brush as the guys flying regionals and gaining all of that flying because of their loss. Its not accurate and its an insult.

Buzz

Well said, Buzz!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Harley (Post 1594754)

This is absolutely the future. With the improvements in aircraft technologies (automation, ground based flying abilities, etc..), the perceived shortage of pilots, and the airlines ability to save pilots costs (MPL's would surely be paid less) it becomes the perfect storm of pressure on the government to make regulatory changes to existing FAR's to make this happen. The public will buy into it because most people already think that the captain is the only one that fly's the airplane so what's the difference between a "co-pilot" and an MPL crew member?

It's inevitable and I don't think that any union can really stop it.

Air France 447 demonstrated the vulnerabilities of modern FBW, GPS, and perceived reduction of pilot input when flying modern aircraft across the pond. When the 18th century pitot tube iced-up, it was up to the pilots to read thru all the bells and whistles, recognize a stall and perform a recovery that we have all been trained to do since the first day of flight training. Unfortunately, the crew (RIP) wasn't able to recognize the extremis of their flight condition through the modern ECAM/EFIS/Stall Warning and revert to old school partial panel/pitch and power to diagnose the problem.

Why revisit this tragic event? Because it demonstrates the necessity for BOTH pilots to handle any unforseen emergencies, even at cruise. In fact, the "full back stick" input from the PF was probably indicative of what a MPL may do when presented with a similar situation and relies only upon systems knowledge, 3 sims and the false sense of security that you can't stall an Airbus. It wasn't until the Capt got back in the cockpit and asked "***" in his best French, that the PF responded, "we don't know, I've had the stick all the way back the whole time". Only then did they realize what was happening, and unfortunately, it was too late.

Add in the security threat, fatigue management, CRM and the historically low mishap rate, and we have plenty of ammunition to shoot down MPL.

One hull loss would would nullify any cost savings generated by MPL! give lawyers in the U.S. a field day, and open criminal proceedings in the E.U.

Nobody wants to see that..

If the MPL pilots are ever to upgrade to FO, where and when will they learn to takeoff and land?