Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
08-19-2008, 12:28 PM
#1531
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: Bebe Bus De L'Air Assistant Aerial Conveyance Facilitator
Posts: 351
I'm reading a lot about displacements, but are we talking about guys losing a seat because the plane moves or because a senior NWA or DAL pilot wants the seat?
I'm junior on the 7ER in NYC, but it's my understanding that I won't/can't be displaced off that seat by a NWA pilot. I also realize that I'll be at the bottom of that list for a long time as more senior NWA pilots, after SLI, bid into the airplane as spots open up and "jump" ahead of me.
I'm junior on the 7ER in NYC, but it's my understanding that I won't/can't be displaced off that seat by a NWA pilot. I also realize that I'll be at the bottom of that list for a long time as more senior NWA pilots, after SLI, bid into the airplane as spots open up and "jump" ahead of me.
08-19-2008, 12:34 PM
#1532
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
A seat cant get taken from you. However if a base shrinks then you can be displaced from it. Therefore if in time people bid the plane your on as positions become available they would be senior to you in the seat. You cant be bumped out of your seat because someone senior to you wants it. Only way people can bid it and get awarded it is IF there is a position available in your category. If they shrink the base then there wont be positions available for people to bid into.
08-19-2008, 12:35 PM
#1533
Senior by choice
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 425
Once the list is merged, as aircraft are moved to different bases pilots will get displaced off those aircraft. They may then bid what their seniority will hold, anyone junior to them on their new equipment moves backwards one number at a time. If you are the bottom guy you will then be dispaleced.
So yes, a NWA pilot can displace you off the ER in NYC.
So yes, a NWA pilot can displace you off the ER in NYC.
08-19-2008, 12:47 PM
#1534
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: LAX ERA
Posts: 3,457
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Ferd:
For instance, lets say that SEA 777B, or 7ERB (767 Intl.) opens up in KSEA and a few 2007 hires jumped on it. They could probably hold the base until NWA's iron starts getting moved and displacements begin. It could be a very short base relocation with costs and displacements on both ends.
On the other hand, unless they send crews international to avoid the 30 in 7, as well as one day off in 7, I don't see how they could build all that great a 12 day trip.
I'm on the 767/757 in ATL and planning to stay put. But if a 777B slot opened up that would allow be to live on Friday Harbor and take the boat to work, well it might just have to play Ernie Gann for 24 months. (was he a NWA pilot?)
The problem (no flame, please) is that the junior pilots at Delta can hold some flying that would currently be pretty senior at NWA. I don't think a seniority inversion helps anyone over the long term, but if they open up each other's bases, I have no doubt the junior pilots would be the first movers. Could also be that some vacated DC9 Captain positions could go incredibly junior.
Wouldn't it be ironic if management decided they wanted the fences after all, to avoid what amounts to a system wide re-bid as folks want to be close to home? I'm optimistic about the merger, but with 12,500 pilots, all these bases and all this equipment - whoo hoo. It will be good for the type rating collection.
BTW, what's an MGL?
ACL:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in a displacement can't the displaced pilot take any slot that is junior to them? For instance you could displace to the 737B, or MD88B, in ATL and the current seatholders would in turn be bumped down until someone got displaced off the bottom of that list, right?
For instance, lets say that SEA 777B, or 7ERB (767 Intl.) opens up in KSEA and a few 2007 hires jumped on it. They could probably hold the base until NWA's iron starts getting moved and displacements begin. It could be a very short base relocation with costs and displacements on both ends.
On the other hand, unless they send crews international to avoid the 30 in 7, as well as one day off in 7, I don't see how they could build all that great a 12 day trip.
I'm on the 767/757 in ATL and planning to stay put. But if a 777B slot opened up that would allow be to live on Friday Harbor and take the boat to work, well it might just have to play Ernie Gann for 24 months. (was he a NWA pilot?)
The problem (no flame, please) is that the junior pilots at Delta can hold some flying that would currently be pretty senior at NWA. I don't think a seniority inversion helps anyone over the long term, but if they open up each other's bases, I have no doubt the junior pilots would be the first movers. Could also be that some vacated DC9 Captain positions could go incredibly junior.
Wouldn't it be ironic if management decided they wanted the fences after all, to avoid what amounts to a system wide re-bid as folks want to be close to home? I'm optimistic about the merger, but with 12,500 pilots, all these bases and all this equipment - whoo hoo. It will be good for the type rating collection.
BTW, what's an MGL?
ACL:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in a displacement can't the displaced pilot take any slot that is junior to them? For instance you could displace to the 737B, or MD88B, in ATL and the current seatholders would in turn be bumped down until someone got displaced off the bottom of that list, right?
I think I understand now.
My understanding is there will be "no bump, no flush" of positions. So, if you can get into SEA on a pre-Delta jet (pre SOC) you would be safe as long as you wanted to stay. Now, you may never get senior (always a problem in SEA - it's real senior) but no one could bid in unless there was an opening. In our system (yours too?) the only way someone could "bump in" is if their airplane went away, then they could bid what they could hold.
I've heard no rummors about the A-330 leaving SEA from our end. Also, there are numerous old Hughes Air West guys (say Green) coming up on retirement in SEA.......what comes next will be interesting to watch. Also, what happens to frieght and all the 747-200s up in ANC will add to the fireworks.
Good luck to us all my friend.
Ferd
08-19-2008, 12:58 PM
#1535
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
To say the least they are playing around with the matrix to see what works where and for what cost. There will be a lot of changes in the next three years to say the least.
From what I have head the story as of today is that the Cargo ops are still running for one reason and one reason only. They are keeping the NRT slots warm. Now after DCC, we will see what becomes of the cargo ops. Personally I would love to see it grow.
From what I have head the story as of today is that the Cargo ops are still running for one reason and one reason only. They are keeping the NRT slots warm. Now after DCC, we will see what becomes of the cargo ops. Personally I would love to see it grow.
08-19-2008, 01:07 PM
#1536
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Right hemisphere of DCFranken9's brain
Posts: 238
" Also, what happens to frieght and all the 747-200s up in ANC will add to the fireworks.
Good luck to us all my friend.
Ferd[/QUOTE]
FWIW, i just came out of the training center in MSP and the people there were hinting at the idea that they may bring back some 200's for charters. I heard that they are making 500 K each time they fly the military around.
Good luck to us all my friend.
Ferd[/QUOTE]
FWIW, i just came out of the training center in MSP and the people there were hinting at the idea that they may bring back some 200's for charters. I heard that they are making 500 K each time they fly the military around.
08-19-2008, 01:14 PM
#1537
seeing the large hubs...
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: 73N A
Posts: 3,706
To say the least they are playing around with the matrix to see what works where and for what cost. There will be a lot of changes in the next three years to say the least.
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
From what I have head the story as of today is that the Cargo ops are still running for one reason and one reason only. They are keeping the NRT slots warm. Now after DCC, we will see what becomes of the cargo ops. Personally I would love to see it grow.
08-19-2008, 01:16 PM
#1538
seeing the large hubs...
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: 73N A
Posts: 3,706
Originally Posted by INAV8OR
FWIW, i just came out of the training center in MSP and the people there were hinting at the idea that they may bring back some 200's for charters. I heard that they are making 500 K each time they fly the military around.
08-19-2008, 01:23 PM
#1539
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,273
How the bases will reorder from a seniority basis over time is fairly easy to predict. There are demographic numbers showing where all the pilots live at both airlines. Looking at the number I saw you can expect the following. SEA on the NWA side will be senior and stay senior. There are are large number of commuting pilots from NWA and Delta living in the NE. They will fill openings in Seattle as they become available. LAX and ATL will become more senior as NWA pilots move into those bases. There are a large number of NWA pilots in the SE and in CA. MSP and DET will see a decrease in seniority and probably become the new hire bases as senior pilots move out and vacancies occur. NYC is already very junior and will remain junior. There are NWA pilots in the NE but not a huge number to impact the base.
Since we don't have a SLI and have no idea what will be awarded how fast this transition of pilots to closer bases will occur is anyones guess. The only thing I know for sure after two mergers is that it will occur. Pilots will migrate to the best basing option for where they reside. Pilots at both NWA and Delta need to avoid getting upset and worked up over this transition. Its not the fault of either pilot group. The SLI will define the rules on how it occurs. Individual pilots will do what is best for them and their families which is only right. As pilots migrate they should be welcomed in the new bases without animosity. It serves no ones interest for childish behavior that happens from a small minority at times.
Since we don't have a SLI and have no idea what will be awarded how fast this transition of pilots to closer bases will occur is anyones guess. The only thing I know for sure after two mergers is that it will occur. Pilots will migrate to the best basing option for where they reside. Pilots at both NWA and Delta need to avoid getting upset and worked up over this transition. Its not the fault of either pilot group. The SLI will define the rules on how it occurs. Individual pilots will do what is best for them and their families which is only right. As pilots migrate they should be welcomed in the new bases without animosity. It serves no ones interest for childish behavior that happens from a small minority at times.
08-19-2008, 01:24 PM
#1540
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
I agree, 100% that it makes more sense to do longer trips, but it may not to the bean counters in the long term. If they were to run longer trips they will need more crews as well.
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