Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
08-19-2008, 06:52 PM
#1551
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy
I thought we were going to have NO fences?
-Fatty
-Fatty
Supposedly there wont be.
08-20-2008, 04:32 AM
#1552
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 7ERA
Posts: 1,216
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Movement? I'm very concerned about even being able to hold ATL period once the DC9 refugees begin displacement bids. It all depends on the slots they decide to "take." .
That is part of my point. I don't think a Delta pilot should be concerned about being bumped out of ATL because a NW airplane is parked. For a period of time, I think if a DC-9 is parked, then the NW pilot has to displace to something in his/her own system. Or set it up so they can only displace into a Delta base if it won't cause a Delta pilot to be displaced out of the base. Same goes for the reverse. A Delta pilot should not be able to bump a NW pilot if a Delta airplane is parked.
08-20-2008, 05:12 AM
#1553
Looking for a laugh
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,099
Originally Posted by iaflyer
Yeah, but I thought there was something in LOA19 or the JCBA that talked about "No bump, no flush" which would negate that section. I don't have my LOA19 here to look it up.
08-20-2008, 06:00 AM
#1554
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Shrunk or moved to a different city.
08-20-2008, 06:15 AM
#1555
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 201
Maybe there is protection from this. I found this statement under filling of vacancies in LOA 19.
"Former NWA pilots will not be eligible for an AE, VD or MD to categories operating pre-merger Delta aircraft until after SOC."
So from this it looks like if both companies shrink or displace, then the pilots getting displaced at each respective company cannot displace pilots on premerger aircraft at either company. At least till after SOC. Now, if the NBNF protects pilots after the SOC then there looks to be protection from this. However, I don't think the NBNF protects anyone from MD after SOC. After SOC everything is fair game as far as a MD goes.
"Former NWA pilots will not be eligible for an AE, VD or MD to categories operating pre-merger Delta aircraft until after SOC."
So from this it looks like if both companies shrink or displace, then the pilots getting displaced at each respective company cannot displace pilots on premerger aircraft at either company. At least till after SOC. Now, if the NBNF protects pilots after the SOC then there looks to be protection from this. However, I don't think the NBNF protects anyone from MD after SOC. After SOC everything is fair game as far as a MD goes.
08-20-2008, 06:18 AM
#1556
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: DAL Pilot
Posts: 1,133
Originally Posted by sailingfun
The Delta contract allows a pilot who is displaced to go anywhere in the system where there is a pilot junior to him in that category. There is no requirement for there to be a opening. If they had that rule what would happen when a airline was shrinking and a senior captain got displaced. He would have no position to go to. Displacements occur most often when a airline is shrinking and the nature of that is that there are no openings. Here is the exact wording from the contract.
13. A pilot who holds an MD may displace a pilot in any category who is junior to him and
who was in such category on the award date of his MD.
MD=mandatory displacement
who was in such category on the award date of his MD.
MD=mandatory displacement
08-20-2008, 06:35 AM
#1557
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,868
Originally Posted by Cycle Pilot
What if a pilot at the bottom of the list (me) gets displaced? I can't hold anywhere except where I am right now. How does that work?
Scoop - Previously displaced off the 737-200 in MCO (junior seat system wide) right back into the US Navy.
08-20-2008, 06:43 AM
#1558
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
There will be a lot of training for you before you get displaced out of the company.
Heck even or VP stated that we will need to hire. Go to the ATL crew lounge today. He is there every Wed. Ask some questions. He has been giving some very honest and informative answers the last few weeks.
Heck even or VP stated that we will need to hire. Go to the ATL crew lounge today. He is there every Wed. Ask some questions. He has been giving some very honest and informative answers the last few weeks.
08-20-2008, 07:11 AM
#1559
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,989
ACL65,
You are exactly correct about what they are saying, but you look at the numbers of DC9's coming out of the system, plus MD88's and 757's (which I did not expect) then add slots for the new 737's and 777's there is more going away than what is coming. It does not add up.
So you add in fuzzy math, like reserve staffing requirements, and it still does not add up.
It will take something more to absorb the pilots who are being replaced by the Compass E175's, Shuttle/Republic E175's, Mesaba, Pinnacle and Mesa/Comair/SkyWest/flavor of the day CRJ900's that are coming on line. These RJ's will not replace the entire DC9 fleet, but they will replace a majority of it over time (as long as 24 to 36 months IMHO). Those pilots are going to go somewhere.
Either we are being told what we want to hear, or there is a big part of the puzzle (MD90s?, 787s?, more 737s?) that we don't have. Management also seems happy to run the airline a little fat on pilots until it all gets figured out internally. I'm guessing it is a little of all three factors at play.
Somewhere there has to be a staffing model. Both MEC's would have this and I can't imagine any reason for it to be confidential. We could also build a model starting with the exchange of system bid information, but the E&FA model would be better if someone can get it. Lets make some inquiries.
You are exactly correct about what they are saying, but you look at the numbers of DC9's coming out of the system, plus MD88's and 757's (which I did not expect) then add slots for the new 737's and 777's there is more going away than what is coming. It does not add up.
So you add in fuzzy math, like reserve staffing requirements, and it still does not add up.
It will take something more to absorb the pilots who are being replaced by the Compass E175's, Shuttle/Republic E175's, Mesaba, Pinnacle and Mesa/Comair/SkyWest/flavor of the day CRJ900's that are coming on line. These RJ's will not replace the entire DC9 fleet, but they will replace a majority of it over time (as long as 24 to 36 months IMHO). Those pilots are going to go somewhere.
Either we are being told what we want to hear, or there is a big part of the puzzle (MD90s?, 787s?, more 737s?) that we don't have. Management also seems happy to run the airline a little fat on pilots until it all gets figured out internally. I'm guessing it is a little of all three factors at play.
Somewhere there has to be a staffing model. Both MEC's would have this and I can't imagine any reason for it to be confidential. We could also build a model starting with the exchange of system bid information, but the E&FA model would be better if someone can get it. Lets make some inquiries.
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 08-20-2008 at 07:19 AM.
08-20-2008, 07:26 AM
#1560
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 757 Left
Posts: 1,306
You know I can't believe they're even thinking of moving aircraft right away. That to me shows a complete lack of foresight on the effects of the merger on the employee group. It's not just about making every last dollar. This merger will have the biggest single career impact on the lives of both companies employees and they want to make it more disruptive?
85% percent of pilots will already be angry no matter how the SLI comes out and then you want to move their equipment and bases? The fact is that most people live near a base and fly what they want now. They're not going to move, they don't want to go to training for 6 weeks, and they sure don't want to be forced into the biggest QOL killer there is, commuting. The only smart way to do this is to leave status quo as much as possible initially and fly the trips with current bases and crews. The stuff being discussed results in a angry, disgruntled employee group and a very bad start for the combined company if you ask me. I hope management is not as short-sighted as it sounds.
85% percent of pilots will already be angry no matter how the SLI comes out and then you want to move their equipment and bases? The fact is that most people live near a base and fly what they want now. They're not going to move, they don't want to go to training for 6 weeks, and they sure don't want to be forced into the biggest QOL killer there is, commuting. The only smart way to do this is to leave status quo as much as possible initially and fly the trips with current bases and crews. The stuff being discussed results in a angry, disgruntled employee group and a very bad start for the combined company if you ask me. I hope management is not as short-sighted as it sounds.
Last edited by Hawaii50; 08-20-2008 at 07:32 AM.
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