Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-18-2014 | 03:56 PM
No longer cares
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From: 767er Captain
Is that 2 hours mean legal to start, legal to finish? If I get stuck in a conga line that is 30 minutes longer than planned at JFK, are we legal to continue? And I wonder what the MEC sched chair approval means... that they can unilaterally at the MEC level approve 2+15 hour legs on the monthly schedules?
short answer, no.
long answer, hell no
Like many I am awaiting the language, and more info, but so far, unless that 117 blurb about having to have 6 hours behind the door is sacrosanct, I am not interested in this.... at all.
05-18-2014 | 03:59 PM
Gets Weekends Off
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CDO's were originally invented as a way to get around the INTENT of the FAR rest requirements. Then the folks who wrote FAR 117 took it to a whole other level by putting language in that actually addressed CDO's ("split duty periods") and made it legitimate. Big mistake IMO. Those things should have been banned a long time ago.
If you think that most pilots assigned CDO's are going to sleep 8 hours during the day in preparation then you are incredibly naive. As I've stated several times before, that's NOT what happens. The track record is very clear on this. Therefore, the way MOST pilots do CDO's IS unsafe. That flight in the early morning is being operated the vast majority of the time by a sleep deprived (fatigued) crew. You're not going to see me or my family on one of those flights, and I will not accept a trip like that because I could not sign the release for the morning flight signifying that I and my crew are properly rested.
I'm not generally a fan of "gubmint" being involved in our lives to much of an extent at all. But where do you draw the line? We need to have some kind of rules about how much rest we have to get, don't we? Or are you suggesting that they do away with FAR 117 and any other regulations that would mandate rest requirements and just rely on everybody to do the right thing and show up for their trips rested? Every man for himself... it's the wild, wild west for airline pilot scheduling. Give the airlines Carte Blanche to schedule us however they want to and leave it to the individual to use the fatigue card when necessary. No rules. Is that what you think should happen?
If you think that most pilots assigned CDO's are going to sleep 8 hours during the day in preparation then you are incredibly naive. As I've stated several times before, that's NOT what happens. The track record is very clear on this. Therefore, the way MOST pilots do CDO's IS unsafe. That flight in the early morning is being operated the vast majority of the time by a sleep deprived (fatigued) crew. You're not going to see me or my family on one of those flights, and I will not accept a trip like that because I could not sign the release for the morning flight signifying that I and my crew are properly rested.
I'm not generally a fan of "gubmint" being involved in our lives to much of an extent at all. But where do you draw the line? We need to have some kind of rules about how much rest we have to get, don't we? Or are you suggesting that they do away with FAR 117 and any other regulations that would mandate rest requirements and just rely on everybody to do the right thing and show up for their trips rested? Every man for himself... it's the wild, wild west for airline pilot scheduling. Give the airlines Carte Blanche to schedule us however they want to and leave it to the individual to use the fatigue card when necessary. No rules. Is that what you think should happen?
I thought it worth mentioning that I agree 100% with your view regarding this issue.
Last edited by Pineapple Guy; 05-18-2014 at 04:11 PM.
05-18-2014 | 04:01 PM
Gets Weekends Off
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From: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
If you departed before midnight and returned after 0200 wouldn't it pay ADG of 5:15 on the day of departure and 5:15 ADG for the return?
So the trick would be to bid for the 3 in-a-row CDOs and then drop the middle one right?
You'd go from 22:30 to 21:00 (4x 5:15) without having to work the middle CDO.
Why would anybody sane go to work and fly a CDO for a paltry 1:30 extra for the middle CDO?
Cheers
George
05-18-2014 | 04:02 PM
Works Every Weekend
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From: 737 ATL
Is that 2 hours mean legal to start, legal to finish? If I get stuck in a conga line that is 30 minutes longer than planned at JFK, are we legal to continue? And I wonder what the MEC sched chair approval means... that they can unilaterally at the MEC level approve 2+15 hour legs on the monthly schedules?
I do not know the answers to those questions.
My guess would be yes. Legal to start legal to finish as long as your rest is not reduced. The return leg would have to be delayed.
I think the MEC scheduling chairman will be very reluctant to approve 2+15.
He might if the sign-in time was right and the rest was long enough.
05-18-2014 | 04:02 PM
The Brown Dot +1
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From: 777B
05-18-2014 | 04:03 PM
No longer cares
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From: 767er Captain
05-18-2014 | 04:03 PM
Line Holder
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If you think that most pilots assigned CDO's are going to sleep 8 hours during the day in preparation then you are incredibly naive. As I've stated several times before, that's NOT what happens. The track record is very clear on this. Therefore, the way MOST pilots do CDO's IS unsafe. That flight in the early morning is being operated the vast majority of the time by a sleep deprived (fatigued) crew. You're not going to see me or my family on one of those flights,
What I've heard from you and others is that "well, we already do international flights and red eyes and there's a marketing need for them....but we shouldn't add more 'unsafe flying' "
Well, I'm sorry, if you believe flying during the WOCL is unsafe in Split duty Ops, then it's unsafe during International/Red eyes. I'm asking you to be consistent...if disturbed sleep flying is unsafe as a CDO, then it's unsafe as a Transpac as well. It doesn't suddenly become safe because we've always done it. Again, be consistent....if you really believe flying in the wee hours of the morning to be unsafe, then it's unsafe for all those types of operations and I will assume that if Delta announces some new Transatlantic destinations next week, you will demand that they be flown by our JV partners because they are unsafe
05-18-2014 | 04:03 PM
Gets Weekends Off
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05-18-2014 | 04:04 PM
Straight QOL, homie
Joined: Feb 2012
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From: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Exactly.
The company has driven hard to the NWA staffing formula since the merger.
In C12, which should have been a home run for us, the company found a way to staff for winter and flex in the summer--a net loss of jobs!
The fact that we are looking hard for ways to turn this into a home run--but can't even find a way to turn it into an intentional walk--should tell us all we need to know.
The company has driven hard to the NWA staffing formula since the merger.
In C12, which should have been a home run for us, the company found a way to staff for winter and flex in the summer--a net loss of jobs!
The fact that we are looking hard for ways to turn this into a home run--but can't even find a way to turn it into an intentional walk--should tell us all we need to know.
05-18-2014 | 04:04 PM
Straight QOL, homie
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,202
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From: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Is there any immediate recourse or appeal if the MEC declines to submit this TA for MEMRAT?
Is there any way to force it?
Is there any way to force it?
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