Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1646915)

Finally got the chance to talk in detail with someone who has read and digested the TA. Cost wise it's heavily weighted in our favor. The 5:15 is very expensive and has many implications I did not consider.
To answer the reserve question there will no longer be a requirement to acknowledge a trip however a reserve will be required to notify the company by 3 hours prior to report if for some reason he is unable to fly the trip. It's a 10 hour leash effectively.
They looked at the augmented turns and see very few if any flights where it makes economic sense other then a market with unsafe layover conditions with one exception. It may be useful to the company on some military charters.
CDO's have many restrictions and you can not be rerouted into them. There is a pay no credit component to the CDO's. More at the end of the post on that.
The 14 hour rule on having to cover trips via normal coverage is significant and based on historical data will cause a significant reduction in reroutes.
Overall the TA will increase staffing requirements. That means the 5:15 will require some phase in. The company has increased hiring however initially the 5:15 will be calculated based on the old rules for credit. The difference will be paid as pay only for a few months until programming and staffing changes are done. It will then become pay and credit.
Bunks for the 330 guys, no soup for you to the ER guys.
Change to FAR's for duty times gives the company 30 additional minutes depending on situation.
First class seats for the NRT guys on longer DH's. Think he said 5 hours.
Memory rat undecided. My gut feel is it will not go to memory rat. If not I suggested at a minimum there should be a week from the time the pilots get the language to a vote so feedback can go to the reps from the pilots.
Overall I can live with everything except the pay no credit on the CDO's. It will average 1.5 hours per CDO so not huge on this TA however I can see it having major implications on future contracts or possible mediation/arbitration. If it goes to memory rat. I will vote no for this issue.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1646928)

Good info Sailing. Thanks.

now to figure out what memory rat is.

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1646915)

Finally got the chance to talk in detail with someone who has read and digested the TA. Cost wise it's heavily weighted in our favor. The 5:15 is very expensive and has many implications I did not consider.
To answer the reserve question there will no longer be a requirement to acknowledge a trip however a reserve will be required to notify the company by 3 hours prior to report if for some reason he is unable to fly the trip. It's a 10 hour leash effectively.
They looked at the augmented turns and see very few if any flights where it makes economic sense other then a market with unsafe layover conditions with one exception. It may be useful to the company on some military charters.
CDO's have many restrictions and you can not be rerouted into them. There is a pay no credit component to the CDO's. More at the end of the post on that.
The 14 hour rule on having to cover trips via normal coverage is significant and based on historical data will cause a significant reduction in reroutes.
Overall the TA will increase staffing requirements. That means the 5:15 will require some phase in. The company has increased hiring however initially the 5:15 will be calculated based on the old rules for credit. The difference will be paid as pay only for a few months until programming and staffing changes are done. It will then become pay and credit.
Bunks for the 330 guys, no soup for you to the ER guys.
Change to FAR's for duty times gives the company 30 additional minutes depending on situation.
First class seats for the NRT guys on longer DH's. Think he said 5 hours.
Memory rat undecided. My gut feel is it will not go to memory rat. If not I suggested at a minimum there should be a week from the time the pilots get the language to a vote so feedback can go to the reps from the pilots.
Overall I can live with everything except the pay no credit on the CDO's. It will average 1.5 hours per CDO so not huge on this TA however I can see it having major implications on future contracts or possible mediation/arbitration. If it goes to memory rat. I will vote no for this issue.

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1646915)

Finally got the chance to talk in detail with someone who has read and digested the TA. Cost wise it's heavily weighted in our favor. The 5:15 is very expensive and has many implications I did not consider.
To answer the reserve question there will no longer be a requirement to acknowledge a trip however a reserve will be required to notify the company by 3 hours prior to report if for some reason he is unable to fly the trip. It's a 10 hour leash effectively.
They looked at the augmented turns and see very few if any flights where it makes economic sense other then a market with unsafe layover conditions with one exception. It may be useful to the company on some military charters.
CDO's have many restrictions and you can not be rerouted into them. There is a pay no credit component to the CDO's. More at the end of the post on that.
The 14 hour rule on having to cover trips via normal coverage is significant and based on historical data will cause a significant reduction in reroutes.
Overall the TA will increase staffing requirements. That means the 5:15 will require some phase in. The company has increased hiring however initially the 5:15 will be calculated based on the old rules for credit. The difference will be paid as pay only for a few months until programming and staffing changes are done. It will then become pay and credit.
Bunks for the 330 guys, no soup for you to the ER guys.
Change to FAR's for duty times gives the company 30 additional minutes depending on situation.
First class seats for the NRT guys on longer DH's. Think he said 5 hours.
Memory rat undecided. My gut feel is it will not go to memory rat. If not I suggested at a minimum there should be a week from the time the pilots get the language to a vote so feedback can go to the reps from the pilots.
Overall I can live with everything except the pay no credit on the CDO's. It will average 1.5 hours per CDO so not huge on this TA however I can see it having major implications on future contracts or possible mediation/arbitration. If it goes to memory rat. I will vote no for this issue.

Originally Posted by Ferd149 (Post 1646939)

For those with non APC time on their hands......

As an amateur historian, I know a lot about WW II, the American revolution and civil war, but squat about WWI. Watching a great 6 part British series on Youtube called "World War I in Color". Great APC distraction:D

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1646853)

For anyone who knows, that includes you Sailing :D, what is going on with the ER?

The crew resources newsletter said "As we stated in the April AE memo, we will selectively not backfill 7ER positions in DTW, NYC and MSP. The future block hour plan shows a decrease of 7ER flying from these stations."

The JSs I have on the ER say it's international is decreasing.

Is it?

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1646716)

Another post with forum histeria without any real thought. As already discussed it requires 3 pilots verses two for each flight on a transcon turn. There has been nothing to stop any airline from flying these as a augmented turn for at least the last 30 years. No airline does them because it makes no sense. Even JetBlue who really wants transcon turns never considered augmenting them.
One other consideration. If Delta did decided to fly transcon turns if your not in the top 20 percent in category don't plan on seeing one. A SFO turn would pay around 12:30. Fly 6 a month and you will have 75 hours. Two three day groupings would look pretty nice as a monthly schedule! Not going to happen however, just to costly for the company

Originally Posted by iceman49 (Post 1646944)

Are we not losing 37 75s between now and 2015?