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-   -   Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/36912-any-latest-greatest-about-delta.html)

Ferd149 05-19-2014 12:38 PM


Originally Posted by Scoop (Post 1646737)

Lets see the details, read them calmly, study them.............................................. .............and then burn the house down!

Scoop :D

^^^^^^^^^^^^
This. So why did I just read the last 10 pages of speculation?:o

But, with that said, without noon for day one reserve is a no vote for me. Anything else requires a day before commute for me and I would imagine most guys.

I'll wait for details on the augmentation speculation. What Sailing said makes since to me (did I just say that:D).

COD (or whatever we'll call them) is one I feel strongly both ways on, but probably no for me as a protection to the young pups (I didn't like the few I did). However I would suggest they would affect such a small portion of the pilot group it'll be tough to get guys to vote no only on that issue. I see them as meaning we are trying to capture close in to hub cities now flown by RJs.......certainly good news.

JMHO

Pineapple Guy 05-19-2014 12:52 PM


Originally Posted by Ferd149 (Post 1646838)
But, with that said, without noon for day one reserve is a no vote for me. Anything else requires a day before commute for me and I would imagine most guys.

So, let me get this straight. You have 18 days on call, but 4 half-days don't count. So, you're really only available to fly a total of 16 days. Fair enough - then I think local guys should get a reserve guarantee 10% higher than commuters, and I'll be glad to be available 10% more!

And since I haven't read Section 23 in a while, do you guys get 12 hours at the end of each block of days to get back home too?:rolleyes:

Ferd149 05-19-2014 12:56 PM


Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy (Post 1646843)
So, let me get this straight. You have 18 days on call, but 4 half-days don't count. So, you're really only available to fly a total of 16 days. Fair enough - then I think local guys should get a reserve guarantee 10% higher than commuters, and I'll be glad to be available 10% more!

I guess I don't follow what you're saying.

I'm assuming the first day of reserve is shortcall, what I normally get.

The rest of what I think you're saying isn't what I think at all....

PS. And why I avoid/don't commute to reserve when I can help it:eek::D

forgot to bid 05-19-2014 01:01 PM

And Sailing let me be clear on why I bring this up, the eyeball test says 2 pilots (A+B) fly transcon and go to hotel. Two other pilots (A+B) fly the jet back. 4 pilots required to do the two turns (2 A and 2 B).

If you can augment then you fly 1 crew (A+B+B) on the transcon and then they fly it home. (1 A and 2 B). You see 7 flights (ATL-SFO example) where you have 3 pilots. I see a decrease in the need to stage fewer pilots for an overnight.

Yes it absolutely is more block hours. But not all block hours are equal. NWA flew 4 man trips with 1 CA and 3 FOs and then swapped to 2 CA and 2 FOs requiring a lot of new 744 As. Big difference between the two and my hunch is the unique network scheduling issues with transcons means more (as you said below) double crews.


Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1646750)
As I posted there are some limited situations where it might make sense in the Central America/Carib or NRT market. Many of our competitors did Carib turns augmented in markets they only flew a few days a week. We double crewed those because our contract required it. It's still not likely we will see much of that because the contract requires a rest seat.

We double crewed by overnighting a second crew vs CAL who flew 737s down with a 3 man crew. I had friends who did it. Hated it. But if I understand you correctly double crews means 4 pilots required to do something vs 3 with an augmented crew.

forgot to bid 05-19-2014 01:03 PM

For anyone who knows, that includes you Sailing :D, what is going on with the ER?

The crew resources newsletter said "As we stated in the April AE memo, we will selectively not backfill 7ER positions in DTW, NYC and MSP. The future block hour plan shows a decrease of 7ER flying from these stations."

The JSs I have on the ER say it's international is decreasing.

Is it?

MD88Driver 05-19-2014 01:04 PM


Originally Posted by hockeypilot44 (Post 1646585)
This NAI thing is probably going to happen. The majority of our country thinks it will bring lower prices. Sadly we are in the minority.

I read the article in the USA Today fish wrap. The commentary makes me sick. Same with the columnist who bashes anything airline related.

Does anyone know how to paste the article on here? It should be required reading for our future, if we choose to do nothing.

forgot to bid 05-19-2014 01:07 PM


Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1646716)
Another post with forum histeria without any real thought. As already discussed it requires 3 pilots verses two for each flight on a transcon turn. There has been nothing to stop any airline from flying these as a augmented turn for at least the last 30 years. No airline does them because it makes no sense. Even JetBlue who really wants transcon turns never considered augmenting them.
One other consideration. If Delta did decided to fly transcon turns if your not in the top 20 percent in category don't plan on seeing one. A SFO turn would pay around 12:30. Fly 6 a month and you will have 75 hours. Two three day groupings would look pretty nice as a monthly schedule! Not going to happen however, just to costly for the company

I still think you would need at least 7. If the top 4 As in the 7ER bid these and top 8 Bs, then there is 12 pilots required to make an average ALV on each one of these particular flight numbers (say 3pm out to SFO and 6am back every day for a month). Multiply by 7 a day and you have 84 pilots to fly this route, 28 As and 56 Bs.

What is it currently?


Originally Posted by Alan Shore (Post 1646525)
The flaw in your analysis is that jobs are created by block hours flown, not time spent in a hotel. Augmented or not, you have the same number of flight hours. Each and every flight hour today require a Captain and an FO. If such flight hours are augmented tomorrow, each will still require a Captain and will now require two FOs.

The result is the same number of Captains required and more FOs, regardless of where those pilots sleep at night.

See previous post about double crews to see what I am thinking.

Ferd149 05-19-2014 01:17 PM


Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy (Post 1646843)

And since I haven't read Section 23 in a while, do you guys get 12 hours at the end of each block of days to get back home too?:rolleyes:

Don't know either, part of my problem is I don't know much about reserve, thank gawd.

But, I think where our rub is, I don't mind coming up the night before if I'm already on long call for a short call day (already working IMO). Or, give me an early availability on the second straight day of short call. If I'm coming off a X day, a late assignment or long call isn't unreasonable.

However, we have gone beak to beak on commuter vs non commuter issues before:D

Purple Drank 05-19-2014 01:18 PM


Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy (Post 1646843)
Fair enough - then I think local guys should get a reserve guarantee 10% higher than commuters, and I'll be glad to be available 10% more!

Yes. Because "commuting is a choice," right?

Ed Harley 05-19-2014 01:33 PM


Originally Posted by MD88Driver (Post 1646855)
I read the article in the USA Today fish wrap. The commentary makes me sick. Same with the columnist who bashes anything airline related.

Does anyone know how to paste the article on here? It should be required reading for our future, if we choose to do nothing.

Agreed. The comments are maddening. It's a reminder of what the general public thinks about pilots, i.e., overpaid / under worked. Below is just one of the comments:

"Don't pilots only work a few days a month? I assumed they only get paid for the time they work not for the days off. My next door neighbor was a commercial pilot and he worked about 10 days a month. He had hour restrictions he could work, I on the other hand have been required to work 54 hours straight at times."


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