Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-21-2014 | 04:49 PM
Works Every Weekend
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From: 737 ATL
Very well said! Think back to the number of times these things end up going in the pilots favor? They end up much different than what was discussed in negotiations or even sold by the NC/MEC. The company can and will exploit these open ended, poorly written agreements on line at a time. Then we can say "didn't see that coming" and "we'll get em next time"....when the company has what they want and is no longer interested in "constructive engagement".
Those guys have done their homework.
They were well prepared to grill Scrappy about this agreement.
Everybody has their opinion about whether this agreement is good or bad but I don't think the company is sneaking anything past us.
Split-duty trips are on the table. It is a huge decision for the MEC.
But I think they are doing it with their eyes wide open.
If you don't want these split duty trips, e-mail your rep right now.
They vote tomorrow. They are reading their e-mail.
05-21-2014 | 04:51 PM
No longer cares
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From: 767er Captain
The real difficulty here will be the standard problem of politics. "Scrappy" and his team are strongly behind this TA as is Donatelli as stated in his letter. Our reps aren't just faced with the decision of voting their conscience based on our known desires. They're faced with "Scrappy", Donatelli and the rest of the MEC administrators viewing a NO vote by reps as a vote of no confidence against them. Will reps want to deliver that indirect message to the team that are set to take us into Section 6?
I've done CDO's back at NWA. I bid them because they looked so good on paper. With my first two, I got plenty of rest during the day and was unable to sleep during my six hour hotel stay. Last leg home was extremely fatiguing because of no sleep. Next I tried staying active all day so I could sleep during six hour layover. Actual sleep was only about 4 hours and I flew last leg home extremely fatigued due to fighting sleep inertia. Never bid them again.
I'm curious as to how a wrongful death attorney would pursue Delta and the pilot's estate if a CDO pilot caused a fatal car crash on the drive home. Actually, I know exactly what the wrongful death attorneys will do.
Carl
I've done CDO's back at NWA. I bid them because they looked so good on paper. With my first two, I got plenty of rest during the day and was unable to sleep during my six hour hotel stay. Last leg home was extremely fatiguing because of no sleep. Next I tried staying active all day so I could sleep during six hour layover. Actual sleep was only about 4 hours and I flew last leg home extremely fatigued due to fighting sleep inertia. Never bid them again.
I'm curious as to how a wrongful death attorney would pursue Delta and the pilot's estate if a CDO pilot caused a fatal car crash on the drive home. Actually, I know exactly what the wrongful death attorneys will do.
Carl
You hit on the head my concern and why I think the SA comparison is invalid. You cannot prepare for the (essentially) IROP that could occur in one of these things. It is a bad idea.
05-21-2014 | 04:54 PM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
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From: 777B
So... Anyone want to discuss the merits of having open segments known 14:00 prior to report have go through PCS before the company can reroute a pilot already on a rotation?
Good or bad?
How much of an effect will it have on reroutes?
How much of an effect will it have on the WS mafia?
How much of an effect will it have on GS awards?
Dal88, we will have to agree to disagree on how "safe" a CDO is or can be and how professional our pilots handle their rest while on off duty.
Good or bad?
How much of an effect will it have on reroutes?
How much of an effect will it have on the WS mafia?
How much of an effect will it have on GS awards?
Dal88, we will have to agree to disagree on how "safe" a CDO is or can be and how professional our pilots handle their rest while on off duty.
Post 117, if you were going to be sick, and called in inside of 16 hrs, the trip would go as a GS.
I don't know that anyone really did this, but it was possible.
Anyway, if the change is to 14, the company is painting itself into a corner for coverage. Imo
05-21-2014 | 04:55 PM
Back on TDY
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From: 747-400 Captain
05-21-2014 | 05:03 PM
Gets Weekends Off
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At this point we might as well reinstate the NWA PWA and paste in the new payrates. Well need KW in CA too.
05-21-2014 | 05:03 PM
Moderator
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From: DAL 330
Shiz,
In a world that the company was not 2 steps ahead of us that would be true and would be great. I hope you are correct, but I foresee those trips being modified to increase productivity.
If what you say comes to pass I will obviously be very happy and modify my bidding strategy.
Scoop
05-21-2014 | 05:03 PM
No longer cares
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From: 767er Captain
05-21-2014 | 05:04 PM
Gets Weekends Off
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This is ALPA's costing of this. I'm betting Ed and company (who actually build the schedules and know what they intend to do going forward) may have there own costing with much different results. I believe they are extremely good at what they do and their best interests don't align with ours with respect to this.
The CDO's alone are a NO from me.
Language in other areas (augmentation) need to be narrowed down too in an effort to prevent the "we don't think they would do that...." from biting us in the butt. I'm for waiting until the next contract openers and stop this mess from seeing the light of day.
The CDO's alone are a NO from me.
Language in other areas (augmentation) need to be narrowed down too in an effort to prevent the "we don't think they would do that...." from biting us in the butt. I'm for waiting until the next contract openers and stop this mess from seeing the light of day.
When the company later does a 180, there are always a million reasons to blame the changes on. Guys like Sailing are quick to give the economy a pass due to things "out of the control of the company".
How many times must we be burned by loose language that uses vague terminology that ends up favoring the company? Who the he11 are these top notch attorneys vetting the agreements and why would our MEC/NC agree to such lousy language? Must we keep shooting ourselves in the foot when more tightly written language would put a stop to it? There are far too many negatives in this current TA. Send it back or lets wait for C2015.
05-21-2014 | 05:10 PM
At home on the maddog!
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From: Retired (mandatory age 65)
Time to trade in "gut feelings" and "probably", "maybe", etc with something more solid to protect those who cannot safely do CDO's and should not be penalized financially or have to do carpet dances in front of the chief pilot for turning them down when they are being forced on the schedule.
So if we allow CDO's, I can just about guarantee you the 88/90 category is going to be chalk full of them. Maybe some senior guys will bid them but I really doubt there are THAT many of us who don't know better. A lot of these trips will go to people who are junior in their category.
So what am I supposed to do if I get assigned one of these things? Call in sick? Refuse the trip? Fly the first leg and then call in fatigued for the leg in the morning? Bid back to First Officer and take a huge pay cut? I don't really see any other options, as I will not sign a release for a flight when I know damn well I'm too fatigued to justify putting all those people's lives in my hands. I can't begin to tell you how upset it makes me that DALPA would even CONSIDER putting some of us in this position.
05-21-2014 | 05:19 PM
At home on the maddog!
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From: Retired (mandatory age 65)
Found this gem on another forum: (a little levity as well as a pretty darn good point)
This is another great opportunity to unify with your RJ alpa brothers.
They already know how much you love to outsource your flying to them.
By degrading your pay and work rules towards theirs, you are showing even more support.
" One level of stupidity "
This is another great opportunity to unify with your RJ alpa brothers.
They already know how much you love to outsource your flying to them.
By degrading your pay and work rules towards theirs, you are showing even more support.
" One level of stupidity "
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