Whatever percentage we see in the TA, my primary question will be how did we get it, and how much did we give up to get it?

If my minimum was 25% the group average was 15% and we got 30% I could still be a no vote if we made too many concessions to get it.

A single 77+ seat "RJ" is a no. Not addressing the JV rebalance in a way that makes us whole is a no. Not at least somewhat tightening the AS code share while its strongly in our favor to do so now is a no. A single additional reserve QOL hit of any kind is a no. Flipping to the tables in section 3 and basing a vote on that is management's dream because they know very well how to get at least 51% that way.

And if our union leadership hears us loud and clear and number one is pay, and its clearly OK to give up at least some QOL for pay…

Line pliot vigilance is critical for this one, even more than usual. There's a lot of cps moving around the table and we can't get caught focusing on one.

[QUOTE=NERD;1659451]This right here is going to be the single largest issue that determines how much we get.


It absolutely is. But the doughnut crowd thinks that just because DAL is printing money right now that we can demand more, and get it just because we deserve it. NOBODY is denying that we deserve more. Nobody. But to believe that we can lead the charge again and again and again without any support from the other groups is just... well, delusional.

I highly encourage gszg and some of the others to go over to the UAL and AAL sites and start the rally cry over there.

Hmmmm... let's see... 18 777s... 2 bases. I'll bet we could make 88 717s work in 4. :) The question is whether or not it is needed.... The Rockies are pretty big though, and it's such a smaaaaaaal airplane. :eek:

This is interesting. You touched on a couple of different metrics here and I was just curious if you could clarify it for me, because I think the point is not a small one and actually go to the heart of many disagreements we have here on this forum. You said that what we make right now is sufficient for your needs, and I think that's great. It is a responsible (and ultimately lucrative) thing to live within one's means. But then you said that the average of the Delta pilot's opinions would determine worth. Worth and needs are two very different things, and I don't see how you can equate the 2 in a survey or poll. I live quite well on what I make right now, but I believe like many that we are worth more. So the way I define worth, with the variable of need removed from the equation will probably be different than a pilot that has 6 kids and 3 ex-wives. He will always have that bias in the back of his mind, which will affect the survey. So how would a poll/survey account for that difference? And then, I really think for it to be a true "worth" evaluation, you would have to take into account the rest of the industry. (I am standing by for the blowback from the usual crowd on that) But the point is that could we honestly say that we are "worth" more than UAL or AAL or SWA pilots? How would you then quantify that statement?

This is dead on.........

I always get a kick outta engineers trying to talk business or in this case "wage and salary administration". I normally get shouted down or just ignored, but here I go again.

Let's pretend we, like most professionals, don't have a union. Let's pretend for a moment we're _________ fill in the blank. How are you paid? Your HR department will FIRST, look around and determine what others that you do make and compete with that number.

Now, I'll agree we're worth more than what we're making. But until our peer group breaks out too (i.e. don't count on United) we have one hand tied behind our backs. Now, if T would only throw for more TDs a year and Sailing would get off his butt and rush for yards per game we could get paid like pro athletes. Oh, and don't mention 80 not getting paid like the rockstar he is:D

Ferd

I'll respectfully disagree.

I think the average of the Delta pilots' opinions would be a very good indicator of what we think we are worth. And just as the market determines stock price, so too, the market determines what we are actually worth.

Respectfully submitted too.

New One for me
 

Anyone ever seen this?

"*** LEG CANCELLED "

It's showing on a rotation later in June, but doesn't appear to apply to any particular leg. I checked Travelnet and Delta.com and the legs around it on the rotation all appear to still be operating. :confused:

It will come back. Probably a minor time change.

Good deal. Thanks.

Wow, I post a transcript of the company talking about how well they are doing (historically well) along with a member of the management team selling some of his stock for 6 million and a bunch of guys show up here stating we have no leverage, take what is offered then cite lots of reasons we shouldn't expect much.

I'm baffled by the white flag waiving. Management reads these boards. He11 management apparently posts on this board. Even if you think we have no leverage why post that to let management see we have already accepted we should get cost neutral or a net loss in everything we do with them?

I tend to side with the guys who say the starting point is to state our goals clearly and get all the troops behind it. No matter the obstacles unless you engage the whole group by bringing them into the process you lesson your ability to get anything done. Maybe that is part of the apathy we are seeing. Most know the union leadership are not willing to make the necessary changes to really rally the troops and therefore we should expect very little.

History is full of insurmountable obstacles that were overcome. Those who overcame were willing to stand up and put all resources into action. To create a strategy, write down goals, rally those around them. Unfortunately we aren't seeing much of that from our union leadership. They pacify with a few bold words but when we have an opportunity a cost neutral solution is put forward and spun as a win. Why not do things a different way. We need to re-evaluate constructive engagement. It's become a problem for us getting compensation, work rules, QOL, etc back on track.