Not angry. Frustrated with the seeming lack of strategy and execution at the top of our union, yes.

Somehow I knew you would use the hopey changey label.

To answer your question on timing:

Put together the numbers and start educating right now. Keep it positive. Pretend RA was running this campaign as someone earlier mentioned. He doesn't get all hot under the collar but he does state his goals, he does communicate those goals clearly and he does find ways to execute and achieve.

Right now is the time to reach out and get every member of our pilot union on board in advance of C2015. Get them excited that their hard work on the line every day has paid off. The company is finally in a position (consolidation, record profits, reduced debt, etc) to make true restoration possible. Surveys we can't see and secret ops behind closed doors do not qualify as the educational campaign I am talking about. As I said in my earlier comments, perform a symbolic vote that can achieve in the high 90 percentile that demonstrates our solidarity and resolve to achieve the goal.

Let management see the solidarity. Remind them that the pilots are critical to achieving managements goals including a well run, investment grade company. No shouting down or other nonsense. Just simply let them know that a very public campaign with 12000 pilots on board is in the wings. Show the company with current numbers, that restoration is possible while remaining profitable as a company.

If the company says not interested, begin step 1 of 100 of a public informational campaign. Managements of yesteryear might have not cared. I think this management will care. Being labeled the airline with the worst labor relations kills one of their favorite investor promotions and isn't the way they want this company to be perceived. The pilots don't either. Somethings gotta give though. Perception is everything and the company knows this as well as anyone.

meh. I think it is a complete waste of time at this juncture. And as far as surveys go, I couldn't care less what YOU think is important.; therefore, seeing that survey is unimportant. If it meets MY expectations and desires, then I will vote yes. And you have no idea how high my expectations are for the next contract. Probably a lot higher than you remotely imagine, but I have no interest in wasting time with feel good messages at this point in time. You and gzsg obviously feel disenfranchised. That's too bad. Maybe it would help if you got involved somewhere where your angst and anger would be better heard and acted upon rather than an obscure who GAS forum..... just an idea. tifwiw

You've made that clear:

- You don't care about seeing survey results

- We are powerless

- The NMBA will put a cap in us if we try anything

- Not interested in spending any "negotiating capital" on NB scope recapture.

- Don't try anything new or expect anything better than what the company offers in the first round.

Regarding your expectations, I said not one word. I hope they are high. That said, a collective group of 12,000 pilots who can see each others expectations is much more powerful than hidden surveys or internal thoughts on what each individual pilots wants.

You have no idea of my involvement the same way I don't know your expectations. Assumptions and all that.

T, I will always respect your position on safety. Beyond that we will probably not agree on how to accomplish the goal of obtaining restoration and beyond.

Again, not angry. Thanks for ignoring that.

Good day Sir!

Listen, I'm as unhappy as the next guy at the crud that has happened over the last ten years and I expect my union to do a much better job next spring than 4/8/3/3, but I'm tired of the tell Richard we deserve 2004 rates right now crowd... Get real. Are gzsg and Ed grimley the same person?

(ALPA take note, the bar is much higher for 2015, last chance to keep this guy on your side)

Business case and hypothetical situation number #1:

Ask yourself one question:

If Delta Pilots are unhappy, what happens to the stock price?



(That's what matters to this management group.)

Exactly:cool:

There is no such thing as a labor friendly CEO, but we do have one that doesn't hate us either. I have confidence we'll do well this time around. Plus, you don't think RA has a good idea what we want? I'm guessing a guy with his big brain has a very good idea.

Look at his track record boys. His job is not to give up a home run, but he hasn't thrown at our head yet either.

JMHO,
Ferd

I don't think we have a prayer of succeeding, if we go in as 11500+ individuals.

I thought we were in a union... I.e., shouldn't it be about obtaining the goals of a group of 11500+ vice the goals of 11500+ individuals. (BTW, I have no idea what my unions goals are... except maybe imposing CDO's on us! And that is very sad.)

Finally, when we were going for the infamous contract 2000, the union was very public about announcing our goals and very methodical in our approach to achieving those goals... I still have my "restoration" tie tack.

I doubt I'll ever hear the term restoration or any similar term from my union for the remainder of my career... and if the membership keeps voting for 3% pay increases, we won't even keep up with real inflation (including food & energy).

It is what it is.

This is a question that has multiple answers. And those answers all depend on timing.

What happened to USAirways stock price when USAPA was unhappy? (It outperformed ours).

What happened to AMR's stock price during the 6 years pre-bankruptcy when the APA pilots were unhappy? The AMR shareowners were the only group besides Hawaiian to not lose everything in an airline bankruptcy (unlike NWA and DAL equity holders).

What happened to UCAL stock price during the 4/3 years that they were negotiating? Even though their airline generates a revenue premium compared to us, their contract still lags ours.

The pilots of those airlines marched around in circles, took out newspaper ads, or got court injunctions against them. Where are their pilot contracts?

SWA didn't picket. FedEx didn't picket. No newspaper ads. No injunctions. Where are their pilot contracts?

For all practical purposes, Richard is the MEC chairman.

Carl

Those kind of massive increases in pay would need to be tied to concessions in other areas. Longevity based pay, further reduced profit sharing etc.

No. That'd be like showing the opponent your hand in poker. :rolleyes:

Carl