Originally Posted by Going2Baja (Post 1665730)

El Lay 737B Back Door is Open...Come on ER!!!!

Baja.

BTW - Look at all those El Salvador's in Open.....KILLER Surf is :30 away. Hoping this trip out grows the NG and heads to the ER!!

Originally Posted by Going2Baja (Post 1665730)

El Lay 737B Back Door is Open...Come on ER!!!!

Baja.

BTW - Look at all those El Salvador's in Open.....KILLER Surf is :30 away. Hoping this trip out grows the NG and heads to the ER!!

Originally Posted by Roadkill (Post 1665677)

Ok... I thought I understood all these new 117 duty times, but recent posts have confused me about how long I must work on a given day, which times I see printed on my rotation and flight plan addendum are REAL limits and which are ones the company has already added 2 hours to for me, etc...

It seems UGBSM was confidant he knew his stuff, and he said some DH things that made me go "whaaat?"
So, can someone who reallllly knows how it all goes together please list the reference papers I should read and carry with me to be totally on top of this, AND to help use to explain to guys I fly with who disagree if such an event occurs?
Right now I have:
1. Old PWA limits for duty day and block are in effect, until NOV maybe?
2. Old PWA limits for automatic extension I can't fight in effect til Nov?
3. FAR117 limits for duty day show up on my rotation, now I'm not 100% sure what they mean... didn't know about the DH, not completely sure about the 30 min after block in handling?
4. An FAA interpretation I've read about, McFadden? which says PIC can NOT agree to an extension ahead of time that he doesn't know about, must agree specifically once informed or aware of an extension.
5. A company policy/bulletin letter that is 180 disagreement with the FAA interpretation, stating that when I sign the release I AM already agreeing with an automatic extension. I have never seen anything from the company changing or rescinding this, so not sure what dispatcher will be thinking?
6. An FAA interpretation stating that ALL pilots involved must agree with an extension for themselves, not just the Capt.
7. A Delta bulletin/policy stating that ONLY the Capt must agree with an extension, after considering the status of his crew, again 180 out from the FAA interpretation. Since both were recent readings, and I haven't seen an official change from Delta rescinding this bulletin or letter from Steve or wherever I read it, I'm again unclear on what the dispatcher and company will be thinking on this.
8. A TA agreement we just made, which I DID read fully, that changes something about duty time and extensions, but I can't remember exactly what, and moreover since I have read at least 10 letters and interpretations and annoucements and bulletins on all this, I can't even remember which has precedence, on what date it will become effective, which is in effect during THIS rotation, and whether the FAA interpretations apply to this TA or if the TA over-rides anything because I'm just mistaking PWA limits for FAR117 limits.
9. About 50 posts on L&G which explained how various aspects of this worked, but then were 180 degrees disagreed with by OTHER posters, the sum total causing me to absolutely lose all understanding of the situation that I previously had, and moreover forget which tidbits I knew from a reliable FAA publishing or official letter, and which I thought I knew from a reliable guy on the forum.


Now, I would say that this whole turd-pie would be a GREAT area for DALPA to publish one of those great letters , "Everything you need to know about Your Required Duty Day as of Jul14!", but haven't seen one. I'm ok pasting together a flowchart myself to figure all this out, if I can get some pointouts on what to really reference.

Then I'll be in a much better situation to act professionally in the full illumination of the Extension Truth if I find myself in a situation like HockeyPilot, and not get criticized for wussing out and not standing my clearly marked line, if my Capt and the Dispatcher both disagree with me and I cave in.

Much thanks ahead!

Originally Posted by Professor (Post 1665745)

Whats the gouge on Maui? I have my first one tomorrow. Anything close to the hotel?

From what I understand KOA is the only layover w/o surf?

clearly I'm new to LAX.

Originally Posted by Alan Shore (Post 1665650)

How do you feel about the 80-hour guarantee?

Originally Posted by The Cavalier (Post 1665661)

Dubious argument. Those reserves that desired to hit 80 hrs under the current staffing conditions would have little trouble doing it under the old rules. Old rules v new rules? Little difference this time of year other than 2 less days off this summer.

I like the system the rest of the year but don't pretend the guarantee makes it a good deal for the summer. It makes little difference that time of year from pay standpoint and we sacrificed guaranteed time off when we're all worn down for time off when most probably aren't looking for it as hard. The gain is pay in the low months. Not everyone's time off is for sale like many of our pilots.

Originally Posted by TOGA LK (Post 1665775)

You obviously aren't keeping up with the Jones in PTC ;) 95 hardly and 130-176 credit hours is the new norm. Frak, why even come home from a trip?