Originally Posted by DALMD88FO

I don't very seriously that this will happen, however I have never heard of "bump in" rights. If you are talking about mandatory displacements coming before AE's you would be correct, however when they open a new category it's straight seniority. There would be a lot of ****ed off f747 pilots if that thing got moved to ATL.

Originally Posted by TheManager

Apparently they were in a city where they needed to rely on endeavor to get them to there next leg.

Guess what. No airplane ever showed because, drum roll, they don't have enough pilots to fly their schedule.

Originally Posted by gloopy

Wow I wouldn't have expected that. Seems like its doing way better than anyone would have thought. Do you have the same comparison for MEM by chance?

Originally Posted by Roadkill

Ok... I thought I understood all these new 117 duty times, but recent posts have confused me about how long I must work on a given day, which times I see printed on my rotation and flight plan addendum are REAL limits and which are ones the company has already added 2 hours to for me, etc...

It seems UGBSM was confidant he knew his stuff, and he said some DH things that made me go "whaaat?"
So, can someone who reallllly knows how it all goes together please list the reference papers I should read and carry with me to be totally on top of this, AND to help use to explain to guys I fly with who disagree if such an event occurs?
Right now I have:
1. Old PWA limits for duty day and block are in effect, until NOV maybe?
2. Old PWA limits for automatic extension I can't fight in effect til Nov?
3. FAR117 limits for duty day show up on my rotation, now I'm not 100% sure what they mean... didn't know about the DH, not completely sure about the 30 min after block in handling?
4. An FAA interpretation I've read about, McFadden? which says PIC can NOT agree to an extension ahead of time that he doesn't know about, must agree specifically once informed or aware of an extension.
5. A company policy/bulletin letter that is 180 disagreement with the FAA interpretation, stating that when I sign the release I AM already agreeing with an automatic extension. I have never seen anything from the company changing or rescinding this, so not sure what dispatcher will be thinking?
6. An FAA interpretation stating that ALL pilots involved must agree with an extension for themselves, not just the Capt.
7. A Delta bulletin/policy stating that ONLY the Capt must agree with an extension, after considering the status of his crew, again 180 out from the FAA interpretation. Since both were recent readings, and I haven't seen an official change from Delta rescinding this bulletin or letter from Steve or wherever I read it, I'm again unclear on what the dispatcher and company will be thinking on this.
8. A TA agreement we just made, which I DID read fully, that changes something about duty time and extensions, but I can't remember exactly what, and moreover since I have read at least 10 letters and interpretations and annoucements and bulletins on all this, I can't even remember which has precedence, on what date it will become effective, which is in effect during THIS rotation, and whether the FAA interpretations apply to this TA or if the TA over-rides anything because I'm just mistaking PWA limits for FAR117 limits.
9. About 50 posts on L&G which explained how various aspects of this worked, but then were 180 degrees disagreed with by OTHER posters, the sum total causing me to absolutely lose all understanding of the situation that I previously had, and moreover forget which tidbits I knew from a reliable FAA publishing or official letter, and which I thought I knew from a reliable guy on the forum.


Now, I would say that this whole turd-pie would be a GREAT area for DALPA to publish one of those great letters , "Everything you need to know about Your Required Duty Day as of Jul14!", but haven't seen one. I'm ok pasting together a flowchart myself to figure all this out, if I can get some pointouts on what to really reference.

Then I'll be in a much better situation to act professionally in the full illumination of the Extension Truth if I find myself in a situation like HockeyPilot, and not get criticized for wussing out and not standing my clearly marked line, if my Capt and the Dispatcher both disagree with me and I cave in.

Much thanks ahead!

Originally Posted by Red Five

Hey can someone explain how the 30 hours off during seven days of on-call works?

Originally Posted by TANSTAAFL

Latest rumor heard on the line is "they" are going to open a 744 base other than DTW at the same time they close CVG right after the fence comes down for bidding. Bump in rights will minimize training waterfall. Couldn't make this up if I tried. Heard from a 744 Capt.

Originally Posted by RockyBoy

CVG will never close. The company needs their LEC votes to keep things going the way they want.

Originally Posted by hockeypilot44

The company does not tell you when you are going to extend. They just assume you know and you will extend. Whatever the FAR time says on the release, you have to add :30 minutes to that time because our postflight does not count. For example, a 5 leg day only allows you to have a FTD of 12:30 but that 12:30 is actually a 13 hour duty day. A two leg day allows am FTD of 14:00 extendable to 16:00 which is actually a 16:30 hour duty day. The new rules actually allow a longer duty day than the old rules along with more scheduled flight time per day. For those of you that feel mored tired, it's because you are. These rules were a royal screw job.
If you're barely going to go over, no problem, dispatch will just issue a new release with a higher cost index and unrealistic taxi times. We are giving up a lot for out 5:15 ADG.

Originally Posted by gloopy

All they have to do is make it a crime free zone. Some 4 X 6 signs should take care of that. That's pretty much the same as a force field.