If that's the cockpit, I hope we order them.

You mean lock in a lower profit sharing rate just prior to big profits, plus gain more pilot efficiency and at the same time win a carrot to dangle above the heads of DCI operators who had long term contracts for inefficient 50 seat flying with no intention to give those up?

You could look at it that way, or you could say big pay raise, better work rules and scope winning! And of course 717++++.


But I think you were right the first time.

Was it an airplane one? They also have a GSE one, make sure your kid gets one of those.

http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/a...g?t=1403272017

I don't agree. The company is chipping away at work rules with LOAs, and throwing the token money at us, which we snap up like Pavlov's dogs.

My hope when the NW pilots came on board was that we would stiffen our spines just a bit, but the contrary has happened. The results are starting to show. Schedule quality has gone downhill, schedule flexibility going downhill, rerouting out of control, no real progress made on scope recapture--because it will take care of itself. In short, we have made QOL trades for money.

Here comes C15. Company is going to want relief from their training problem, company is going to want relief from sick issues--caused by guys fling domestically 11 days in a row. They will be willing to pay $$$ for pay banding, for sick banks, other items here and there. Scope will probably remain status quo.

The key will be the timing and severity of the downturn. Will the $$$$ hold up? Will we have to give up the scope to keep a semblance of the $$$$ in 2017 or 2018? Will the pay banding and other training relief granted come back to bite us if a significant downsize occurs?

In short, since I know everyone likes to bash them so much and can relate so well, will we become USAirways of today, or worse SWA without the money AND a hub and spoke operation.

Strategic vs tactic. Discuss….

And on top of that they're going to want health care cost relief.

I think he's saying we should be compensated accordingly when the company is wildly profitable in large part due to the massive amount we all gave up 10 years ago.

I don't agree with that statement at all. Have you never slid your vacation? Have you not used bidding for CQ, so that you and your seniority, and not the company, can determine when you go to CQ? How about the 5.15 ADG for all pilots all the time? That will be the biggest game changer possibly in the history of DALPA contracts? During "sainted" Y2K you would have 2-day trips (ex dh ATL-MCO, layover, fly MCO-ATL on day two) that could pay a reserve as little as 4 hours, and a regular lineholder 7.15. Now that same trip pays 10.30 for both of them.

I could go on and on. We have given the company work rule concessions in two places--the ALV limits raised as high as 84 hours, and the 30 day summer months. That was offset, however, by a much higher reserve guarantee in perpetuity, every month, forever. That is a tradeoff most of us will grudgingly accept, though I don't know many guys--myself included--who are thrilled by the 30 day summer months.

What is your evidence? Yes, during the summer schedule flexibility is slim, but that would be the case at any airline, including PMDL and PMNW. If schedule quality has gone downhill I would attribute that more to FAR117 and our company flying mainline equipment just once a day (last flight in, first flight out) to smaller stations. How does our contract affect that?

Those are good points. I am not willing to trade one cent for any "training relief" and I am sure you are not either!

Actually that is a good point. That is why I have finally determined in my own mind that, despite the attacks you see here so often, that both Lee Moak at national and our own MEC "get it." While the DPA is worried about "ALPA hacked our website!" and the USAPAs and APAs of the world are absolute non-players in any issue in Washington, Moak understands the international challenges we face and all the angst about "flying 11 days in a row" won't mean squat if our careers are decimated by the Emirates and NAIs of the world, aided and abetted by our own despicable Congress.

Which is more effective? Multiple 3-5% pay raises for years on end, compounded on top of each other, or "chest thumping" not making any progress whatsoever, then finally getting a 25% raise? The latter gets to declare "victory" while the former just shows up every day and does his job. The latter never realizes in his own self-congratulatory rhetoric that the former actually did better.

5 weeks ago RA said no used wide bodies, but never say never in this industry.

But we didn't get CDOs. They were foolishly tentatively agreed to (apparently with far more onerous flight times than the original PMNW guys who initially proposed the idea ever envisioned). However due to the line pilot outcry--mine one of the many voices who immediately contacted their reps--the MEC listened and we never adopted them. That was a good lesson learned, I believe.

Had the CDOs been implemented, especially without memrat, then his point would have been valid. Other than that I can't think of any negatives with the recent LOA in its final form.

Can I assume you are talking about airplanes not new hire FA's