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-   -   Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/36912-any-latest-greatest-about-delta.html)

sailingfun 06-22-2014 05:46 AM


Originally Posted by Lifeisgood (Post 1669123)
It is not test flying really, but as a company researches to order or not a certain type the project pilots will be invited to observe some testing, take notes and report to their companies. Occasionally they might even touch the controls and take a couple of selfies.

Better familiarity for airlines and good will and openness from manufacturers.

Airbus has had a checkered history with demo flights. They had a 330 demo where the airbus test pilot decided to show the customers how easy a engine failure could be handled even with a failed hydraulic system flown by the auto pilot. It did not end well.

filejw 06-22-2014 06:23 AM


Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1669608)
Airbus has had a checkered history with demo flights. They had a 330 demo where the airbus test pilot decided to show the customers how easy a engine failure could be handled even with a failed hydraulic system flown by the auto pilot. It did not end well.

It wasn't a demo flt but a test flt with some customer pilots on board. He didn't just decide to try something it's was part of his planned itinerary for the flt.....

Sink r8 06-22-2014 07:07 AM

Airbus Industrie Flight 129 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What was interesting to me, is how little discussion there was at the time, about what this meant for the aircraft's certification. It seems to have failed a legitimate test. Did they simply change the allowable CG range?

sailingfun 06-22-2014 07:54 AM


Originally Posted by Sink r8 (Post 1669641)
Airbus Industrie Flight 129 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What was interesting to me, is how little discussion there was at the time, about what this meant for the aircraft's certification. It seems to have failed a legitimate test. Did they simply change the allowable CG range?

It seems odd they would be performing flight tests with customers onboard. I guess however it saved money over flying demo flights.

filejw 06-22-2014 08:10 AM


Originally Posted by Sink r8 (Post 1669641)
Airbus Industrie Flight 129 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What was interesting to me, is how little discussion there was at the time, about what this meant for the aircraft's certification. It seems to have failed a legitimate test. Did they simply change the allowable CG range?

Don't think so as the purpose of the test was to use the a/p I think and not so much a cg limit. Accident was caused by lots of small errors by crew from what I remember reading. There are a couple of NWA guys still around from the A340 program that could tell more as they were in France a lot. Think they knew pilots from this accident too..

DAL 88 Driver 06-22-2014 08:14 AM


Originally Posted by Splash (Post 1669420)
Not trying to mislead. I'm trying to prove that pay rates that aren't well above the rest - regardless of how they got there - are not vulnerable. American didn't take cuts to their pay rates in bankruptcy because their rates weren't vulnerable.



So a discussion of "buying power" and inflation referencing 1986 earnings is meaningless in this context. We work in a very competitive segment of the private sector. If this was a discussion of how much government workers (like the military) should receive in pay increases, it might matter. We negotiate your pay and benefits based in large part upon how profitable our enterprise is. We don't have to like it, but we should understand it.

Our enterprise is very successful right now. I expect to see significant improvements to our earnings negotiated in the next contract because of that.



I am not attacking you. Can you respond without attacking me?

Not attacking you. I'm just pointing out that your way of looking at it (which is also DALPA's way of looking at it) makes anything like restoration virtually impossible. I understand that you (and DALPA) view bankruptcy as a reset and that our earnings should be tied to company profitability. That is where you and I fundamentally disagree.

iceman49 06-22-2014 08:22 AM

If I remember, this flight was testing the ability of the autopilot to handle an engine out shortly after takeoff. During the previous tests the fcu altitude was set at a much higher alt above the grnd, on the last test the fcu altitude was set much lower to the ground. When alt * came on it was doing the computation as to how long it took to get to the fcu alt, since it was much lower than the previous demos the autopilot caused the aircraft to pitch up to meet the calculations. The aircraft was rolling off on one side and the pilots pulled the other engine to idle to straighten out the aircraft. Initially it was thought that it was only a 330/340 problem, but via the sim we found out the 320 had the same issue, I think there was a software change....its been a long time. One of NWA execs was supposed to be on board and bowed out at the last moment, I think there were a lots of execs from Allitalia on board.

johnso29 06-22-2014 09:25 AM


Originally Posted by Express pilot (Post 1669287)
Are there any RJs we can list S2 on?

I've done it on GoJet before.

RockyBoy 06-22-2014 09:28 AM


Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1669477)
Your post is very emotional as evidenced by the... shall I use the word "critique"? of those that believe Mr Anderson is doing a fine job... the best job this industry has seen in a long time, if not forever. So you accuse him of being totally motivated by self interest and greed. OK... if that were the case, why would he hang around this industry? After the turnaround he has done at DAL, I am quite certain that he could go many other places and make a ton more coin. In your post, you seem quite class envious of his position. You make a judgement about what he "deserves". That is dangerous ground my friend. Maybe we should write our congressmen to pass the "Anti - dog eat dog rule"... Getting DAL relisted on the S&P is a great thing for DAL. It means that many more investors MUST buy the stock. The buyback value is a bit more tricky. In terms of ROI, it really doesn't make that much money for any shareholder... paying down debt would garner a far better ROI, but I understand the psychology. What it does do is to instill a sense of confidence in management for those shareholders. That is good for us as pilots, because it means more money and more value for the enterprise. Do the execs get rich? You betcha. Do I personally care? Nope, not really. I'm not an executive. I'm not an NBA power forward either getting paid way too much money to play a game. I play the cards I am dealt. And I am not necessarily as cynical as sailingfun about the timing of the next contract. The company might want to lock us in before we hit the $5B debt in 2016. Because after that, it will be really really hard to justify not paying us a lot more. Food for thought.

I'm with T on this one. Pay RA whatever. As long as he is paying down debt and running the company like he has since he arrived, I don't care what he gets paid. Paying down debt has been the best long term move any CEO at Delta has done in decades. Having our debt below 5 Billion is huge for those of us who have a lot of years left here.

C2015 better be good for us though. Without the givebacks the pilot group gave RA wouldn't have had a company to come and run. Are we really now the only employee group not back to pre bankruptcy pay levels??

Cycle Pilot 06-22-2014 09:54 AM


Originally Posted by johnso29 (Post 1669714)
I've done it on GoJet before.

You can select the S2 at check in but it doesn't do anything. We're S3C on connection carriers. Endeavor might be different since we own them.


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