The issue is that what you posted was terribly distorted. C2012 allowed for a greater number of jumbo RJ's (70 through 76 seaters). Of that there can be no doubt. I know you know that...which makes a distorted post like yours troubling. Troubling because it's hard to know why you do it.

Carl

So Carl's wrong and Sailing is right--C2012 reduced the number of 76 seaters?

Here's what I don't get Clamp. If sailingfun's problem was that he was just awful at analysis, then the odds would dictate that his flawed analysis' would work to the benefit of Delta pilots half the time, and management the other half. Instead, sailingfun's "analysis" is always pointed toward lowering expectations. Either by over touting our contract or under emphasizing what others have, it always points toward lowering your expectations. That's why his motives are so troubling to me.

Carl

I wouldn't give it that much credence... he's outed his own name on here a couple times. He's not mgmt. He just likes being the "well, actually..." guy.

Yet another failed doughnut sponsored talking point, presented by Carl Spackler. When it comes to doughnuts, think of Carl.

Doughnuts by Spackler. has a ring to it. Ever think about quitting and opening up a shop Carl?

That is friggn' hilarious! I watched a couple matches today, and the amount of flopping was obscene! I only wish it were from sniper fire! Thanks for the laugh 80K!

Just as Sailingfun did, you're simplifying Section 1 into misleading (at best) sound bites. C2012 increased the number of 71-76 seaters (not 70-76) under a given set of circumstances above what would have otherwise been allowed, while placing other restrictions on DCI that were not previously in the PWA.

Actually, Carl, I'm buying it. As a line pilot, I have no access to costing sheets put together by ALPA any more than I do to those put together by the Company. Have you seen their numbers?

The fact is that my reps, who did have access to every bit of data, looked me in the eye and told me exactly what Shiznit is saying here -- that our net increase in cost to the Company, after the pay rate increases, profit sharing decreases, vacation and CQ training pay increase, shift in bid periods, ALV expansion, etc., etc., was around $400M per year.

I believe them.

And you don't think that management has reason to spin data? The very people that need to justify to the BOD and Wall Street why they've just given the most expensive pilot group in the industry another $400M a year? You don't think they have any need for spin?

Really?

Yes, we're seeing the Company give pay raises to the other employees. Welcome to the anti-union initiative. Are they back to pre-BK wages? I don't know. What does that even mean? We were back to pre-BK (but post-LOA #46) prior to C2012. So what?

And do you really think they needed concessions from us to be able to afford to give raises after the profits we've been generating recently?

Wrong. They were largely (but not completely) offset by revenue enhancements from the fleet upgauging that may or may not have happened anyway, and from maintenance savings on 50-seaters that they might or might not have parked anyway.

The $400M in increased pilot costs is a net figure as far as what we directly cost Delta.