Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1685247)

Sailing,

It was known among high level executives that Delta was being managed into bankruptcy at least as early as the Summer of 2001. There are a few Delta pilots who understood and who will speak candidly.

Watch The Full Program Online | Can You Afford To Retire? | FRONTLINE | PBS

Please watch the link above. It is an old story now, but Delta hired McKinsey Company's consultants to advise and they ran the exact same playbook they had run at United. Pay particular attention to the discussion of "first day orders" in the video.

ALPA overall did a very good job for Delta pilots in a terrible no win situation. I remain highly critical of some of the choices made (scope sales) because outsourcing has negatively effected tens of thousands of pilots now and cost even the "lucky" like me at least 1.5 million in career earnings potential. But, for the group ALPA was focused on, the association did a good job.*

Flying Cheap | FRONTLINE | PBS

Only a very few pilots are objective enough to appreciate the minimization of harm (as opposed to pay increases which are more easily measurable). Because of that, some were in positions to remain somewhat blissfully unaware of just how bad the profession has got far underneath them.

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* Given the tremendous price paid to preserve what we have, it is a shame that the efforts of those who represent(ed) our profession remain largely unappreciated.

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1685288)

The only thing is, we are not the mob and this isn't a movie. This is real life.

I do not agree with blowing off our Admin Manual. But these guys saw a deal they thought was as good as could be had and they executed. Would have a more technically correct method, that resulted in less money and promotional opportunity been preferred?

I dunno. But I do know that after our MEC out their ratification on sending it to the pilots, it did not matter.

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1685288)

Or, in other words ...

.

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1685300)

Carl,

The take away is bolded, now twice, for your convenience in review.

Goodfellas is a great movie none the less.

Originally Posted by Fly4hire (Post 1685328)

:rolleyes:

I'm usually impressed with your acumen and grasp of nuance, but if you believe that you are definitely standing too close to the reactor :eek: why bother having Reps, surveys, votes, direction or anything. Let's just let the self appointed smartest guys in the room decide for us. Checks and a Balances, schmecks and valences......

Having the majority vote does not constitute a intellectual or moral vindication of a position, it just means you have a majority vote. Victors writing history is usually debunked by serious observers.

I agree completely about Pinnacle, however one was local and the other National.....well maybe :(

Originally Posted by Fly4hire (Post 1685328)

I'm usually impressed with your acumen and grasp of nuance, but if you believe that you are definitely standing too close to the reactor :eek: why bother having Reps, surveys, votes, direction or anything. Let's just let the self appointed smartest guys in the room decide for us. Checks and a Balances, schmecks and valences......the ends justify the means.

Having the majority vote does not constitute a intellectual or moral vindication of a position, it just means you have a majority vote.

Originally Posted by Purple Drank (Post 1685329)

Now who's flame baiting? :confused:

Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy (Post 1684616)

sailing, I think you might be pleasantly surprised. Profit sharing was 8.2% last year, and I believe our YTD profits far exceed this time last year, so I don't think 12-15% is out of the realm of possibilities.

As for trading PS for pay, I hate to admit I actually agree with Jerry on this one. My reasoning is much different from his though.

Management wants/needs the flexibility to reduce costs when revenues turn south which they inevitably do in this industry. So, tying a portion of pilot costs to profit sharing means they might pay more than they want in good times, but get to pay less in bad times. And in the long run, I think we end up with more pay with a profit sharing component because of that. They can't argue they can't afford the profit sharing piece, because by definition, it's coming out of profits. And they can keep our hourly rate in line with the competition, but if Delta does well, we can all benefit from that.

I say, don't touch it. And I've been around long enough to fully realize this economic cycle will end, and our PS will dry up in the coming years; but I'm still OK with that.

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1685367)

My point is, the past is the past. Better to look forward.