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Old 08-13-2014 | 05:39 PM
  #165631  
Carl Spackler's Avatar
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Originally Posted by Mesabah
Well, for starters, the Delta MEC could take over the Endeavor MEC.
Don't think that's legal without Delta and Endeavor operating under a joint pilot working agreement.

Carl
Old 08-13-2014 | 05:53 PM
  #165632  
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
I agree. But I'm afraid ALPA will not allow that. It would give DALPA too much control over their own Section 1. How do we get around that?

Carl
Kindly consider this a response to FTB's point as well.

Just Council 44 is larger than FedEx. We have a highly functional political machine and there is a reason other airlines borrow from the ranks of Delta subject matter experts. We run ALPA; to the extent we want to.

However, those who perceive gain from selling other Delta pilots' jobs are given the convenient out of pointing at ALPA National, when in reality ALPA National's role was a ministrative authorization of our bargaining. No regional airline has even crammed one down on the Delta MEC, ever.

As much as a change in recognition would bind our management, it would bind our MEC into greater transparency. Our politicians would have to take greater ownership of scope positions and negotiations.
Old 08-13-2014 | 05:54 PM
  #165633  
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Originally Posted by forgot to bid
So if Bar ran the MEC and fought this worthy battle he'd be up against the company and ALPA National?




Originally Posted by forgot to bid
This is a trick jedi mind trick question right?
Not at all. You just can't get there from here.

Carl
Old 08-13-2014 | 05:56 PM
  #165634  
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Don't think that's legal without Delta and Endeavor operating under a joint pilot working agreement.

Carl
We did not have a joint PWA with Compass. Neither did Continental and Express, or Ransome and Pan Am.

I am not sure what the advantage to a single MEC might be, but some might say it clouds the issue of "class and craft" should an express carrier seek a merger with a mainline carrier via a petition for Single Transportation System finding.
Old 08-13-2014 | 05:58 PM
  #165635  
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
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Carl,

You know better than that. The issue is here, among the Delta pilots and their Representatives. National's not going to refuse to sign a Delta contract. They work for us.

I am optimistic that we are going to improve recognition language through the efforts of our MEC. These men are always working to improve the pay and working conditions of Delta pilots. I have been vocal about the opportunities that I've seen, sure, but I don't know of any other MEC that does it better than we do.
Old 08-13-2014 | 05:59 PM
  #165636  
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Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Carl,

You know better than that. The issue is here, among the Delta pilots and their Representatives. National's not going to refuse to sign a Delta contract. They work for us.
Not in Carl's world
Old 08-13-2014 | 06:06 PM
  #165637  
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Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Kindly consider this a response to FTB's point as well.

Just Council 44 is larger than FedEx. We have a highly functional political machine and there is a reason other airlines borrow from the ranks of Delta subject matter experts. We run ALPA; to the extent we want to.
Our largeness doesn't mean anything when it comes to electing an ALPA president as you well know. We don't run ALPA any more than JetBlue runs ALPA.

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
However, those who perceive gain from selling other Delta pilots' jobs are given the convenient out of pointing at ALPA National, when in reality ALPA National's role was a ministrative authorization of our bargaining.
You're sure right about that. But to change it, it means we'd have to go to war with ALPA to relinquish their financial grip on us. I'm all for a war with them if that's what it takes...I just wonder if you really are.

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
No regional airline has even crammed one down on the Delta MEC, ever.
What? We just had a preferential hiring agreement crammed down on us and our MEC wasn't even spoken to about it.

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
As much as a change in recognition would bind our management, it would bind our MEC into greater transparency. Our politicians would have to take greater ownership of scope positions and negotiations.
Exactly right. When do we go to war?

Carl
Old 08-13-2014 | 06:12 PM
  #165638  
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Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
We did not have a joint PWA with Compass.
Did we take over their MEC?

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Neither did Continental and Express, or Ransome and Pan Am.
Did Continental or Pan Am takeover those respective MEC's?

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
I am not sure what the advantage to a single MEC might be, but some might say it clouds the issue of "class and craft" should an express carrier seek a merger with a mainline carrier via a petition for Single Transportation System finding.
Not sure either.

Carl
Old 08-13-2014 | 06:19 PM
  #165639  
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Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Carl,

You know better than that. The issue is here, among the Delta pilots and their Representatives. National's not going to refuse to sign a Delta contract. They work for us.
National won't refuse to sign a contract because they'd never let it get that far. I know for a fact that ALPA has numerous times threatened MEC's with the withholding of finances and expertise if they don't like the direction you're pursuing. They do NOT work for us, we work for them. I think we could change that, but it would take a war. I'm ready.

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
I am optimistic that we are going to improve recognition language through the efforts of our MEC. These men are always working to improve the pay and working conditions of Delta pilots. I have been vocal about the opportunities that I've seen, sure, but I don't know of any other MEC that does it better than we do.
If ALPA national ever let us do that, I'll buy you a steak dinner and all the beer you can drink.

Carl
Old 08-13-2014 | 06:39 PM
  #165640  
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From: Light Chop
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Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Kindly consider this a response to FTB's point as well.

Just Council 44 is larger than FedEx. We have a highly functional political machine and there is a reason other airlines borrow from the ranks of Delta subject matter experts. We run ALPA; to the extent we want to.

However, those who perceive gain from selling other Delta pilots' jobs are given the convenient out of pointing at ALPA National, when in reality ALPA National's role was a ministrative authorization of our bargaining. No regional airline has even crammed one down on the Delta MEC, ever.

As much as a change in recognition would bind our management, it would bind our MEC into greater transparency. Our politicians would have to take greater ownership of scope positions and negotiations.
I like the idea, I just don't know how we get them to do it. And I am mainly thinking the company would not go for it. It'd be a huge loss to them.


WHICH, is a huge red flag. Kind of like having your daughter bring home this dude...


Last edited by forgot to bid; 08-13-2014 at 07:11 PM.
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