Originally Posted by WidgetDriver (Post 1710284)

Had a LCA tell me that the company isn't happy with the 717 numbers. He said they aren't getting the fuel numbers they were hoping for, and they expected it to go more junior. He said to expect an announcement this fall that they are going to stop taking delivery of the rest of the 717s.

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1154031)

What about the 717 ? Here's some 717 porn for starters: 717 Sales Handout

CASM - Cost Per Average Seat Mile ... cost to move one butt, one mile. Includes direct aircraft operating expenses, including aircraft ownership. Source - US DOT / BTS (Bureau of Transportation Statistics) Second Quarter of 2010 Link: RITA | BTS | Transtats Pay Service, if you don't like doing your own spreadsheets, link: PlaneStats by Oliver Wyman

B737-700 (airTran) CASM = 5.3
A320 - CASM = 6.2
B737-800 (Delta) CASM = 7.1
B717 - CASM = 7.9

Now, the real competition for the 717:

CRj900 (76 Seats) SKYW - CASM = 5.3
CRj700 GoJets = 6.0

The numbers tell the story.

Originally Posted by WidgetDriver (Post 1710284)

Had a LCA tell me that the company isn't happy with the 717 numbers. He said they aren't getting the fuel numbers they were hoping for, and they expected it to go more junior. He said to expect an announcement this fall that they are going to stop taking delivery of the rest of the 717s.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1706191)

I'll look for Moak to put out a damage control letter shortly. He's a lame duck leader now, but he doesn't want open hostility for him in his last few months. He'll have to carefully craft a letter that shows him to still be interested in labor, without walking away from what he's promised Wall Street and airline management.

Originally Posted by gzsg (Post 1706222)

Carl

I.bet he doesn't say i word.

Let them eat.cake!

Jerry

Originally Posted by scambo1 (Post 1710465)

I'm bowing to you Professor Crane. Can I use hotel reward points to buy some payback days?

Originally Posted by WidgetDriver (Post 1710284)

Had a LCA tell me that the company isn't happy with the 717 numbers. He said they aren't getting the fuel numbers they were hoping for, and they expected it to go more junior. He said to expect an announcement this fall that they are going to stop taking delivery of the rest of the 717s.

Originally Posted by GunshipGuy (Post 1710623)

Sounds like a bored LCA is trying to see how far his made up rumor will go.

Originally Posted by gzsg (Post 1710471)

MD Says in his message RFP widebodies for growth. At least some. Is this true?

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1710593)

We are coming up on contract negotiations. Management probably wants to backfill with more large RJ's and outsourcing. Or, they might want us to "buy" our scope.

LCA are management's equivalent to ALPA pilot 2 pilot during contract negotiations. ... not saying they are not an excellent source of good information.

You might recall that I took a lot of heat for this research.


Relevance of 717 to Southwest continues to diminish
By Lori Ranson ([email protected]) (Aviation News | Aviation Industry & Airline Statistics | flightglobal.com (Aviation News | Aviation Industry & Airline Statistics | flightglobal.com))

Southwest Airlines continues to see less of a role for the Boeing (Latest news and blog posts from the Flightglobal team) 717 as the markets the aircraft serves increasingly become unviable in a high fuel cost operating environment.

Through its acquisition of AirTran finalised in May, Southwest obtained 88 of the small narrowbodies.

Citing the small role 88 aircraft play in the combined AirTran-Southwest fleet of roughly 700 aircraft, Southwest CEO Gary Kelly declared to attendees today at the International Aviation Forecast Summit hosted by the Boyd Group that the 717 does not "bring any unique benefit that Southwest cannot get with the 737".

Kelly stated the 717 is roughly the same size and offers close to same economics as the 737-500s the carrier operates. However, he did highlight higher maintenance costs on the Rolls-Royce engines powering the 717s.

Rising fuel costs are also leading to some 717 markets operated by AirTran to become unsustainable, as evidenced by the carrier's decision to cut four markets that are all or partially served by 717s - Asheville, NC; Atlantic City, New Jersey; Moline, Illinois and Newport News, Virginia.

Underscoring that smaller-gauge aircraft are tough to operate in those markets as fuel costs climb, Kelly said in the long term he does not see the 717 playing a strategic role in Southwest's fleet.

He stated some of the lease expirations on the 717s begin in 2017 and continue through 2024. Southwest is in discussions with Boeing regarding the 717 leases, Kelly explained.

Originally Posted by casual observer (Post 1710540)

We've all been there.

Originally Posted by EdGrimley (Post 1710461)

So, the $64,000 question. Are you making roughly $64,000 this month including retirement, per diem and intl override?