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Originally Posted by tsquare
(Post 1718388)
Only if it is above and beyond what we can get in a pay increase without it. Other than that, I agree with Jerry. It should be off the table. For the life of any contract we are about to negotiate, profits are going to be in the cards. Delta IS going to make big profit$. Delta's profit for the next 5 years or so is gonna be off the charts. Now on the NEXT contract, it should be examined, and it would be stupid not to. Once it's gone though, it's gone forever. I'll happily take the chance on this one, and reevaluate it on the next.
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Did Delta Force The Retirement Of Record-Holding Flight Attendant? Paul Thompson
"Rather than a date to celebrate, it marks the end of a 62-year, 8-month career marred by a seven-month stressful and unfortunate ordeal. Robert's pending retirement was not of his choosing... Please understand that Robert needs time to sort out and reflect upon the events preceding his retirement" Judging by the many comments left by his former coworkers, he was beloved and respected. All careers come to an end, and Bob undoubtedly loved his and did it well. It's quite a shame that it had to end under unhappy circumstances. I have requested a comment from Delta to provide their side of the story, and I'll update this piece when or if they respond.UPDATE Delta has provided a statement, though it doesn't answer the discrepancy: Robert "Bob" Reardon acquired legendary status at Delta and in the industry for performing a job he loved for 62 years. During that time he provided safety, service and friendship to countless customers and colleagues. We thank Bob for his years of dedicated services and wish him all the best in his retirement journey after what has been a truly remarkable aviation career. Top image: Northwest Orient Boeing 377 Stratocruiser. Photos courtesy of Robert Reardon's Facebook page. |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1718392)
Agree with the above and beyond.
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Originally Posted by tsquare
(Post 1718405)
So the tactic would be to take it off the table completely, negotiate the pa raises for this contract, than then do an "Oh by the way...". Even with that, I'd rather take our chances that DAL is gonna make healthy profits for the duration of this contract, because I don't think we could get enough pay to offset what we could potentially get in PS.
You were here in 1999 when Delta was generating similar margins and everyone said it was a fundamental change in the industry and profits were here to stay. At the current margins capacity will start coming back into the industry with expansion and new entrants. |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1718411)
According to Jerry the deal is already done! Give me a 14% raise today and I am all over it to end the profit sharing.
You were here in 1999 when Delta was generating similar margins and everyone said it was a fundamental change in the industry and profits were here to stay. At the current margins capacity will start coming back into the industry with expansion and new entrants. |
Originally Posted by sailingfun;1718373[B
]If we could monetize the profit sharing at this years profit level it would be incredibly stupid not to do so. The company is highly unlikely to go for that deal. [/B]
There have however been no discussions with the company on profit sharing or about a early contract opening contrary to your posts. How do we do that with the above not being counted as a raise? I am solidly with Jerry on this one. When we were exiting BK, DALPA lauded the profit sharing - so why ditch it with record profits coming in? Use common sense and remember our management is always one step ahead of us - if the company wants us to monetize our PS what does that tell you? Initially I was very skeptical of PS but I trusted DALPA and they were correct - it was/is a good deal. The industry has indeed changed - we are making record profits with a lackluster economy - when has this ever happened before? I know that there is a risk with PS but I for one am willing to accept this risk over the risk of monetizing PS and that counting as our raise. If we do pull in around 12% PS this year I think keeping PS will be high on everyone's survey. Too bad we will not have the final numbers until after the survey is closed. Scoop :) |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1718411)
According to Jerry the deal is already done! Give me a 14% raise today and I am all over it to end the profit sharing.
You were here in 1999 when Delta was generating similar margins and everyone said it was a fundamental change in the industry and profits were here to stay. At the current margins capacity will start coming back into the industry with expansion and new entrants. I must be misunderstanding you - iF PS came in at 12% this year you would be willing to monetize that for an additional 2% raise for C-2015. Wow! Do you think a 2% raise would pass ratification? Scoop :confused: |
Originally Posted by Scoop
(Post 1718423)
How do we do that with the above not being counted as a raise?
I am solidly with Jerry on this one. When we were exiting BK, DALPA lauded the profit sharing - so why ditch it with record profits coming in? Use common sense and remember our management is always one step ahead of us - if the company wants us to monetize our PS what does that tell you? Initially I was very skeptical of PS but I trusted DALPA and they were correct - it was/is a good deal. The industry has indeed changed - we are making record profits with a lackluster economy - when has this ever happened before? I know that there is a risk with PS but I for one am willing to accept this risk over the risk of monetizing PS and that counting as our raise. If we do pull in around 12% PS this year I think keeping PS will be high on everyone's survey. Too bad we will not have the final numbers until after the survey is closed. Scoop :) |
Originally Posted by Scoop
(Post 1718425)
I must be misunderstanding you - iF PS came in at 12% this year you would be willing to monetize that for an additional 2% raise for C-2015.
Wow! Do you think a 2% raise would pass ratification? Scoop :confused: It now looks like the profit sharing this year will be in the 14% range. |
Originally Posted by tsquare
(Post 1718426)
You don't necessarily need final numbers. You just need to look trends. Today there are several articles out that show DAL is guiding slightly down in the coming months/quarter. Slightly. I'll still take the chance on the PS. All downward guidance does imho is lower investors' expectations. So if the stock price takes a little hit, I'll buy more on sale. If we overproduce.. stock price goes up. win/win But my main point is that it perceptual at this point, and I still believe that DAL is gonna make good money going forward for any time frame that will involve our contract. YMMV
Are you willing to bet your nest egg and our next contract on the fact that you "believe that DAL is gonna make good money going forward for any time frame that will involve our contract." Have you looked at our stock lately? I mean realllllyy looked at it on a fundamental and technical basis? Tell us after you go look at a halfway respectable chart, when was the last high? What is the current trend, being that you say you actually look at them, on price and volume? Here is my point. Stock is an asset that goes up and goes down. The science is buying and selling at the proper time. Same can be said for profit sharing and hourly pay. First, profit sharing is not to be considered into pay. It is a bonus. Those around here that like to add it to a pay rate and claim higher hourly compensation are delusional. In that line of reasoning, are these same people going to realize a pay cut to their hourly rates when profit sharing dips or evaporates? Don't get me wrong. Currently I enjoy my yearly profit sharing bonus. Point is: Going forward, I would prefer to see a substantial increase in contractually determined pay rates with status quo on profit sharing. No need to trade it for rates as we did before. No need to hope that Delta will continue to do well so that your extra check on Valentines Day shows up. Profitability can be fleeting. Think anything. ISIS, Ebola, full on Putin Ukraine invasion, Islamic extremist attacks on oil supply/& or Hormuz. You get the point as we could go over scenarios for days. |
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