How does this post...

...generate this answer?

I have no idea who the two posters are, so I'm not going to assume that Oberon speaks for the union. He just happens to provide a good example of a wrong answer. It's emblematic of the problem we supporters often feel when discussing ALPA. Granted, we've had a particularly unproductive attempt by the DPA, which lingers, and lingers, and lingers, so the ALPA guys feel a bit on the defensive. But we should always have a vibrant (and often spirited) debate about the role of our union. We should always talk about how we can improve our lot.

When assessing our strengths and weaknesses, I think we do fairly well with our lobbying/legislative efforts, particularly when considering the leverage that money provides, and the legislative landscape.

There are many areas to be proud of. And some where we don't do very well. One area I'd like to see more emphasis on is basic advocacy, and basic pilot issues. I'll give you a small example: the 737 cockpit. Not long ago, I was thinking about bidding it for seniority. I don't mind the cramped conditions, but what drives me nuts is the noise. Everyone that flies it, knows it's ridiculously noisy. I once heard that under JAR rules, Europeans don't fly it without headsets (never confirmed it). Regardless of what they do across the pond, I don't understand how on earth we allow airlines to operate them without intercoms, and better headsets.

At the local level, one area where we often fail, is when we take the company's position so much into account, that we forget to behave like pilots. Years ago, I thought it might be a good idea for the CQ distributed training to be delivered in smaller bites, throughout the year, as opposed as once per cycle. I wrote up a paper, and asked my rep who to send it to. He suggested the Training rep (makes sense). I don't even remember who that numbskull was, but he essentially blew me off, saying that it would be impossible to have CQ contents throughout the year, because the FAA would have to sign off on it (and they never would), and the Company would have to incur costs (and they never would).

What do we have now? Quarterly CQ. Go figure.

Not only was the guy a worthless defeatist, but he was also dead wrong. I don't remember his name, and I think he was close to retiring, so I'm not targeting anyone specific, but an attitude.

So when a guy says he likes ALPA, but wishes we would perform better at the local level, not just politics, giving him some dismissive, smart-a$$ answer about whether he'd like less representation in DC, is probably not the right answer.

Dramatic, much?

His letter makes plenty of sense, and it doesn't alienate anyone that's not invested in acting alienated. I'd give it a B-. It's a little long, and could be a little more "fire-in-the-belly", I suppose. I see a couple of opportunities that were not captured. But to declare it a "fail" is ridiculous.

You have some really odd grading standards, considering every letter the MEC ever submitted gets a red "F" from you, but the crap that DPA puts out somehow gets a pass.

I only put one bid selection in for second vacation. I did not get it yet i was awarded a week not even close to whatni bid for. ***?

My 2 cents as a mid seniority line guy who believes it's time for massive unity:

A. Donatelli was the SPC Chair during the negotiation that got us 2004 rates if I recall correctly. I'm assuming he knows a lot about how to get us a great contract. Maybe even more than you.

B. I could care less what our execs make. I didn't check that box or turn around a 85,000 person company. Stating how much the execs have made isn't going to convince anyone what we deserve anymore than the old FA last night who was complaining the entire trip about how much pilots make, convinced me she should make what we do.

That's okay, I seem to remember that same sentiment was around for the last Super Bowl and how did that one turn out.............?:eek::)

Denny

Soooo you basically said that if I can't get this one vacation week that I desire, then I don't care what week I get. So the computer gave you your second choice.

I happen to think that labor should have a voice in this country and when it does it is better for the country. You lost me with "unearned entitlements, free phones".

Not quite true Sink,

I'm not a DPA supporter and never have been. I actively engage my reps and I know my contract better than most, however I didn't like his letter at all. In my opinion it really didn't say anything other than laying out a timeline and tooting the union horn from 07 until now. After reading the first paragraph my take away was that we are not going to ask for anything appropriate for the amount of money that Delta is currently making but want to just plod along like a work mule continuing to get some incremental gains. I truly hope that I'm wrong.

On the first day of 2015, the Delta pilots achieved their eighth consecutive annual pay increase. Let’s think about that for a moment: If you were hired in 2007 or later (over 2000 of our pilots), every New Year’s Day has come with a pay raise. Your hourly pay rates have grown through annual percentage increases, and from longevity and seat or equipment changes. To the degree we can control things, this is the type of career we must always strive for; continuous progression, increased pay, better work rules, solid benefits and better retirement while working for a successful company.

In my opinion this would be a memo sent out by management, not the leader of the union. I would have preferred something like:

The timing is finally right, and appropriate, for the company to recognize the significant sacrifices that the Delta pilot group endured in order to make this company the best in the industry.

Then go into this plan on how to make this contract the best we have seen including C2K.

Just my opinion

Maybe not within the context you cite, but I think your point is valid in both directions. We expect and demand a union that is responsive on all levels. It's easy to imagine a union run by pilots that balances the needs of its members successfully on all levels - but probably really hard to run one.

So some of what you call "defensive" chatter by ALPA supporters might be reminders that it's not easy to self-govern, and that it's impossible to make everyone happy. ALPA has issues. It's also better than any alternative that doesn't solve the inherent problem of pilots governing pilots.

Name a few of them Karnak. Exactly, what are some of ALPA's "issues"?

Carl