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I was hired in 2000. New Hire? How do you edit that?
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A letter to my reps.......
Gentlemen,
Thank you in advance for you time. As we near the mid February date of disbursal for 2014 profit sharing each of us is made more aware of the role it plays in our total compensation. The percentage of total profit sharing payout for myself equates to nearly 2 months pay. Extracting this significant benefit during such a profitable period for our industry will be an unenviable task. I am aware that efforts to achieve significant pay and contractual improvements may involve some kind of reduction to or even the elimination of profit sharing. I approve of that negotiated outcome, let me tell you why. I've never been a fan of profit sharing. My skillset is in time and risk management. An efficiency expert if you will. My compensation should never have been tied to management's ability to coerce a profit from the operation. The idea was ill advised in concept and even worse in practice because the formula for disbursement is based solely on W2. The profit generating productivity of a pilot working 80 hours for straight pay is discounted in comparison to a pilot working equal or less hours flying green slips. I personally find the eventual sunset on Profit Sharing a breath of fresh air. Relief at long last from an obscene plot that remunerated a select few Super Premium or Green Slip opportunists while the majority of your constituents stand outside looking in. So hats off to you in your efforts to dismantle the Frankenstein we should never have birthed. Of course its never as easy as just shutting it down because its the right thing to do. No, there will be plenty of push back from the usual suspects who view any form of profit sharing reduction as a concession and from those select few who profit the most from its inequitable application. But in the event that you are successful in this endeavor we should at least visit an alternative that might act as panacea to the idea of eliminating profit sharing altogether. I propose the purchase of an Annuity/Retirement product for every pilot at the airline starting on his date of hire. The company would make an annual payment of $5,000 per pilot employee toward that annuity irrespective of position flown, hours worked or corporate profitability. This per capita model would offer an equitable and substantial supplemental retirement plan which would offset in large part the cost for the membership retiring the profit sharing model and make room for contractual improvements including raises in rates of pay. I cannot stress enough the importance of crafting a per capita model. The emphasis here must be on decoupling profit sharing from W2 and replacing that model with one that fairly distributes a contractual benefit for all. Any effort to construct a model that disproportionally rewards position, equipment, longevity or W2 perpetuates a shameless scheme already in place which since we've all acquiesced to might be left well enough alone. Best of Luck, TJG |
Originally Posted by IAV84DAL
(Post 1811697)
Gentlemen,
Thank you in advance for you time. As we near the mid February date of disbursal for 2014 profit sharing each of us is made more aware of the role it plays in our total compensation. The percentage of total profit sharing payout for myself equates to nearly 2 months pay. Extracting this significant benefit during such a profitable period for our industry will be an unenviable task. I am aware that efforts to achieve significant pay and contractual improvements may involve some kind of reduction to or even the elimination of profit sharing. I approve of that negotiated outcome, let me tell you why. I've never been a fan of profit sharing. My skillset is in time and risk management. An efficiency expert if you will. My compensation should never have been tied to management's ability to coerce a profit from the operation. The idea was ill advised in concept and even worse in practice because the formula for disbursement is based solely on W2. The profit generating productivity of a pilot working 80 hours for straight pay is discounted in comparison to a pilot working equal or less hours flying green slips. I personally find the eventual sunset on Profit Sharing a breath of fresh air. Relief at long last from an obscene plot that remunerated a select few Super Premium or Green Slip opportunists while the majority of your constituents stand outside looking in. So hats off to you in your efforts to dismantle the Frankenstein we should never have birthed. Of course its never as easy as just shutting it down because its the right thing to do. No, there will be plenty of push back from the usual suspects who view any form of profit sharing reduction as a concession and from those select few who profit the most from its inequitable application. But in the event that you are successful in this endeavor we should at least visit an alternative that might act as panacea to the idea of eliminating profit sharing altogether. I propose the purchase of an Annuity/Retirement product for every pilot at the airline starting on his date of hire. The company would make an annual payment of $5,000 per pilot employee toward that annuity irrespective of position flown, hours worked or corporate profitability. This per capita model would offer an equitable and substantial supplemental retirement plan which would offset in large part the cost for the membership retiring the profit sharing model and make room for contractual improvements including raises in rates of pay. I cannot stress enough the importance of crafting a per capita model. The emphasis here must be on decoupling profit sharing from W2 and replacing that model with one that fairly distributes a contractual benefit for all. Any effort to construct a model that disproportionally rewards position, equipment, longevity or W2 perpetuates a shameless scheme already in place which since we've all acquiesced to might be left well enough alone. Best of Luck, TJG |
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My guess is if profit sharing was sold immediately it would be like a 15% bump in pay... but spread out over a few years plus a marginal increase yoy.
That's my guess. What do yall all think? |
Originally Posted by IAV84DAL
(Post 1811697)
I propose the purchase of an Annuity/Retirement product for every pilot at the airline starting on his date of hire. The company would make an annual payment of $5,000 per pilot employee toward that annuity irrespective of position flown, hours worked or corporate profitability. This per capita model would offer an equitable and substantial supplemental retirement plan which would offset in large part the cost for the membership retiring the profit sharing model and make room for contractual improvements including raises in rates of pay.
I cannot stress enough the importance of crafting a per capita model. The emphasis here must be on decoupling profit sharing from W2 and replacing that model with one that fairly distributes a contractual benefit for all. Any effort to construct a model that disproportionally rewards position, equipment, longevity or W2 perpetuates a shameless scheme already in place which since we've all acquiesced to might be left well enough alone. Best of Luck, TJG Thank you in advance for your time. I cannot stress enough the importance of crafting a proper response to such an idea. In short: No. Quite happy, unless you're crafting something after negotiations are complete that adds at least 15% year after year on top of the pay rates. You know, time value of money and all that stuff. Best of luck, GG |
Originally Posted by IAV84DAL
(Post 1811697)
Gentlemen,
Thank you in advance for you time. As we near the mid February date of disbursal for 2014 profit sharing each of us is made more aware of the role it plays in our total compensation. The percentage of total profit sharing payout for myself equates to nearly 2 months pay. Extracting this significant benefit during such a profitable period for our industry will be an unenviable task. I am aware that efforts to achieve significant pay and contractual improvements may involve some kind of reduction to or even the elimination of profit sharing. I approve of that negotiated outcome, let me tell you why. I've never been a fan of profit sharing. My skillset is in time and risk management. An efficiency expert if you will. My compensation should never have been tied to management's ability to coerce a profit from the operation. The idea was ill advised in concept and even worse in practice because the formula for disbursement is based solely on W2. The profit generating productivity of a pilot working 80 hours for straight pay is discounted in comparison to a pilot working equal or less hours flying green slips. I personally find the eventual sunset on Profit Sharing a breath of fresh air. Relief at long last from an obscene plot that remunerated a select few Super Premium or Green Slip opportunists while the majority of your constituents stand outside looking in. So hats off to you in your efforts to dismantle the Frankenstein we should never have birthed. Of course its never as easy as just shutting it down because its the right thing to do. No, there will be plenty of push back from the usual suspects who view any form of profit sharing reduction as a concession and from those select few who profit the most from its inequitable application. But in the event that you are successful in this endeavor we should at least visit an alternative that might act as panacea to the idea of eliminating profit sharing altogether. I propose the purchase of an Annuity/Retirement product for every pilot at the airline starting on his date of hire. The company would make an annual payment of $5,000 per pilot employee toward that annuity irrespective of position flown, hours worked or corporate profitability. This per capita model would offer an equitable and substantial supplemental retirement plan which would offset in large part the cost for the membership retiring the profit sharing model and make room for contractual improvements including raises in rates of pay. I cannot stress enough the importance of crafting a per capita model. The emphasis here must be on decoupling profit sharing from W2 and replacing that model with one that fairly distributes a contractual benefit for all. Any effort to construct a model that disproportionally rewards position, equipment, longevity or W2 perpetuates a shameless scheme already in place which since we've all acquiesced to might be left well enough alone. Best of Luck, TJG |
Originally Posted by bohicagain
(Post 1810998)
92 hours at 320 Captain pay is over 230k + PS + DC contribution. Not to shabby getting almost all weekends off with every holiday off.
How much do chief pilots make? There are about a dozen ALPA pilots who get the 92 hours per month plus expenses (MEC Chairman, Vice, Sect, Treas, EAs and Neg Comm). The remaining ALPA pilots who work full time (CA, Scheds, Comm, R&I, Safety chairmen and some vices) in the office get 87 hours per month on the equipment they are actually on (not what they can hold) plus expenses. The remaining ALPA pilots (the majority) are paid for any trips/reserve days dropped that conflict with their work in the office plus expenses. While it's easy to say that both of these jobs offer a "sweet deal" for not having to work weekends or holidays, neither lines of work are walks in the park. I would say, in my opinion, that with few exceptions, the FOMs, Chief Pilots, many of the other 4th floor positions, and the full time ALPA pilots are getting hit with some amount of work almost every single day. The emails and the phone calls never take a day off and don't care if the pilot is in the office or not. Those pilots are forever dealing with/fixing someone else's problems. I'm glad some are willing to do that. Most of us, myself included, prefer to park the jet at the gate, go home and forget about work for the most part. Those extra pay hours don't seem worth it, especially in times where you can finesse your schedule into getting paid for a lot more than what you actually work if you know how to play the system (insert ceremonious bow to Denny here :D). Then those guys in the ALPA office are working more and getting paid less. JMHO |
We should all take a moment to bow down in gratefulness for the ALPA worker and the little he/she receives for such a thankless job (no one every thanks them, do they? That's why we can honestly say it's a "thankless job"). The pilots have it easy flying the line, bringing in that silly thing called "revenue", safely transporting the customer to their destinations day after day, enduring the most desirable schedules, getting anniversaries, birthdays, and holidays off; flying comfortable hours in easy, pleasant, quiet, non-hazardous working conditions, with plenty of time at his/her convenience to enjoy a healthy meal, and all for more pay than we deserve. I see more posts here describing the awful, almost humanly unbearable ALPA work load and lack of decent pay than I do the actual pilot's schedule and generous pay, and gosh darn it, it's good to see we have our heads on straight when it comes to our priorities and how to properly view things. Come on, get on the team; come in for the big win! Realize that as the line flying pilot we've got it easy; we're a dime a dozen with the little we had to do to get here. So be quiet, and support your ALPA no matter what they do. In fact, if you do have any suggestions, keep them to yourself and volunteer for a job to help those ALPA folks out.
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Originally Posted by IAV84DAL
(Post 1811697)
Gentlemen,
Thank you in advance for you time. As we near the mid February date of disbursal for 2014 profit sharing each of us is made more aware of the role it plays in our total compensation. The percentage of total profit sharing payout for myself equates to nearly 2 months pay. Extracting this significant benefit during such a profitable period for our industry will be an unenviable task. I am aware that efforts to achieve significant pay and contractual improvements may involve some kind of reduction to or even the elimination of profit sharing. I approve of that negotiated outcome, let me tell you why. I've never been a fan of profit sharing. My skillset is in time and risk management. An efficiency expert if you will. My compensation should never have been tied to management's ability to coerce a profit from the operation. The idea was ill advised in concept and even worse in practice because the formula for disbursement is based solely on W2. The profit generating productivity of a pilot working 80 hours for straight pay is discounted in comparison to a pilot working equal or less hours flying green slips. I personally find the eventual sunset on Profit Sharing a breath of fresh air. Relief at long last from an obscene plot that remunerated a select few Super Premium or Green Slip opportunists while the majority of your constituents stand outside looking in. So hats off to you in your efforts to dismantle the Frankenstein we should never have birthed. Of course its never as easy as just shutting it down because its the right thing to do. No, there will be plenty of push back from the usual suspects who view any form of profit sharing reduction as a concession and from those select few who profit the most from its inequitable application. But in the event that you are successful in this endeavor we should at least visit an alternative that might act as panacea to the idea of eliminating profit sharing altogether. I propose the purchase of an Annuity/Retirement product for every pilot at the airline starting on his date of hire. The company would make an annual payment of $5,000 per pilot employee toward that annuity irrespective of position flown, hours worked or corporate profitability. This per capita model would offer an equitable and substantial supplemental retirement plan which would offset in large part the cost for the membership retiring the profit sharing model and make room for contractual improvements including raises in rates of pay. I cannot stress enough the importance of crafting a per capita model. The emphasis here must be on decoupling profit sharing from W2 and replacing that model with one that fairly distributes a contractual benefit for all. Any effort to construct a model that disproportionally rewards position, equipment, longevity or W2 perpetuates a shameless scheme already in place which since we've all acquiesced to might be left well enough alone. Best of Luck, TJG My feeling is you are soooooooo far off the mark that it's not funny. If you aren't good with basing PS off of pay, what are you good with basing it on....oh that's right you want to go to some sort of straight annuity of $5000/pilot per year? Oh puhleeze! That is a drop in the bucket! Why don't we just abrogate any kind of seniority while we're at it!:rolleyes: Oh, by the way, shutting down profit sharing is NOT the right thing to do. As has been explained on here, it gives the company some leeway in reducing pilot compensation in lean years. What is wrong with that? I find it unbelievable that there are people out there that want to get rid of it right when it's starting to pay off big time! Maybe you better learn how to green slip! I hope to Gawd that your opinion is in the vast minority. IMO, it would be a huge mistake to get rid of it in the next few years. Denny |
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