Originally Posted by gzsg

It's ironic the flight attendants will not get their profit sharing stolen because they are status quo.

Originally Posted by Sink r8

I guess every equity that we own jointly was paid in some way or another, and the PS definitely a joint equity, but it does make it sort of weird to have a guy that didn't pay the bill, agitate for dumping the whole thing.

Originally Posted by sailingfun

Historically it will be zero most years. I find it funny that you have been duped by Dalpa into thinking its regular compensation. Dalpa has been trying hard to make the distinction between pay and at risk compensation. They are blasted for that because some here think they want to give it up and then blasted for the opposite. Seems like a can't win situation. One thing I do know is this pilot group seems to have a very short term memory. A few years ago profit sharing was worthless and why did Dalpa even negotiate it and now it's the greatest thing since electricity!

Originally Posted by Tumbleweed

Belgian beers actually improve with age as long as they are kept in a dark and relatively cool environment. This is especially true for quads or dark and malty beers. The only beer you don't really want to leave sitting around for too long is an IPA or any hoppy beers.

Originally Posted by IAV84DAL

Huh? 2000 hire here. 5 years furloughed. If I didn't pay enough where's the window where I can make a catch up contribution??

At the end of the day Donatelli's articulation of Profit Sharing as "at risk compensation" is adequate. I'd only take issue with the word "compensation". Rocky gets it.

I wanted to share in Delta's profit. So I kept 3500+ shares of BK stock in my 401k issued at about $6 a share. THATS profit sharing.

Now if we gave the horses that pull this stagecoach hardest the majority of the oats I'd have fewer issues with it. But our Frankenstein gouges out the profit share based on W2 not hours flown. Horses standing in the corral can get as much or more depending. Whodathunkit?

Phase profit sharing out and compensation in.

Does anyone want to converse about the Q400 scope carve out in Section 1 for Horizon?

Originally Posted by DeadHead

Just curious....How would you monetize an entire profit sharing concession to management in C2015?

Originally Posted by IAV84DAL

Gentlemen,


Thank you in advance for you time. As we near the mid February date of disbursal for 2014 profit sharing each of us is made more aware of the role it plays in our total compensation. The percentage of total profit sharing payout for myself equates to nearly 2 months pay. Extracting this significant benefit during such a profitable period for our industry will be an unenviable task. I am aware that efforts to achieve significant pay and contractual improvements may involve some kind of reduction to or even the elimination of profit sharing. I approve of that negotiated outcome, let me tell you why.


I've never been a fan of profit sharing. My skillset is in time and risk management. An efficiency expert if you will. My compensation should never have been tied to management's ability to coerce a profit from the operation. The idea was ill advised in concept and even worse in practice because the formula for disbursement is based solely on W2. The profit generating productivity of a pilot working 80 hours for straight pay is discounted in comparison to a pilot working equal or less hours flying green slips.


I personally find the eventual sunset on Profit Sharing a breath of fresh air. Relief at long last from an obscene plot that remunerated a select few Super Premium or Green Slip opportunists while the majority of your constituents stand outside looking in. So hats off to you in your efforts to dismantle the Frankenstein we should never have birthed.


Of course its never as easy as just shutting it down because its the right thing to do. No, there will be plenty of push back from the usual suspects who view any form of profit sharing reduction as a concession and from those select few who profit the most from its inequitable application. But in the event that you are successful in this endeavor we should at least visit an alternative that might act as panacea to the idea of eliminating profit sharing altogether.


I propose the purchase of an Annuity/Retirement product for every pilot at the airline starting on his date of hire. The company would make an annual payment of $5,000 per pilot employee toward that annuity irrespective of position flown, hours worked or corporate profitability. This per capita model would offer an equitable and substantial supplemental retirement plan which would offset in large part the cost for the membership retiring the profit sharing model and make room for contractual improvements including raises in rates of pay.


I cannot stress enough the importance of crafting a per capita model. The emphasis here must be on decoupling profit sharing from W2 and replacing that model with one that fairly distributes a contractual benefit for all. Any effort to construct a model that disproportionally rewards position, equipment, longevity or W2 perpetuates a shameless scheme already in place which since we've all acquiesced to might be left well enough alone.


Best of Luck,

TJG

Originally Posted by DALMD88FO

For those of you that are so willing to give away profit sharing, maybe a history lesson is in order. We did not receive PS out of the goodness of managements hearts. We received it due to the enormous paycuts and termination of our defined benefit plan. This is from our Delta pilot contract history put out by the union under the LOA 51 title.

Required Delta to reach agreement on terms and conditions if DB plan was terminated and to discuss profit sharing and equity during comprehensive negotiations that would recognize pre-bankruptcy concessions from LOA #46.

We took a 32.5% paycut in letter 46 that was suppose to insulate us from the company coming for more in BK. Anyone remember something called a bankruptcy protection letter? The union kind of omits that little nugget in the description of LOA 46 since the company turned around and originally wanted another 19% paycut but settled for a 14% paycut while we were in bankruptcy.

Long story short we paid for this PS. It wasn't given to us. It was earned. So why don't we just pretend like it doesn't exist and negotiate our payrates according to the profits that Delta is currently making.

IF, after the fact, the company wants to talk about turning PS into additional pay raises separate to section 6 then it will cost them a premium not a 1:1 like we did in C2012. I'm tired of taking money out of one of my pockets and putting it into the other and calling it a raise.