Originally Posted by IAV84DAL (Post 1822441)

No, it is patently unfair to construct a question asking what PS is worth in Pay only. That isn't spit balling. Spit balling would require an acknowledgement the entire PWA is up for improvement and suggestions for where best to use a newfound asset to leverage contractual gains. The premise of his question forces me to acknowledge that PS can only be leveraged to improve pay.

Originally Posted by IAV84DAL (Post 1822422)

Your accusation has been disproven shoe. Accept it. And the subsequent attempt at hysterical metaphor as an assertion that Profit Sharing is contractually guaranteed suggests you are either lying or just woefully misinformed.

You owe me an apology.

Originally Posted by LeineLodge (Post 1822391)

This would be amusing if it weren't so sad.

Originally Posted by LeineLodge (Post 1822391)

Carl, how do you suggest we combat the many threats facing our profession? Do we only choose to engage those politicians that match our own individual ideologies (impossible btw with such a large pilot group)? Or would a better strategy be to attempt to engage wherever an opportunity presents itself to further our careers?

Originally Posted by LeineLodge (Post 1822391)

I hear an awful lot of negativity from you, but rarely any solutions.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1822552)

I propose the ALPA SAC (for members that still have a pair:D). The ALPA SAC would support conservative politicians who believe in larger liberty and smaller government. Then we could both make our "pilot partisan" cases to our respective legislators. Competition!
Carl

Originally Posted by GunshipGuy (Post 1822529)

So you reject the notion of a PS equivalence to Pay, but you're adamant we should give up PS.

And you say PS isn't compensation. So you think we should just give up PS.

OK

Digesting......



Digesting...........


Uhhhhhhh, so if I'm following you, and maybe your mind is just on another level, like a Stephen Hawking level and I'm just a dumb pilot....but, ...... uhhhhh.....Ok...wait...let me....

Maybe I drank too much NyQuil, because I'm not quite following you.....

You think we should give up Profit Sharing, but for some evil genius reason that I'm incapable of figuring out, and you don't think there should be any increase in pay for it....(I think I'm catching on...light bulb is starting to flicker!)...Because, because...yeah, I got it...because PROFIT SHARING DOLLARS AREN'T COMPENSATION! Look at me! I'm in on the scheme....Yeah, Profit Sharing isn't compensation! No, no, we don't do something stupid like think we should give it up for something silly like pay rates...that would be foolhardy. We just get rid of it and refuse to put a number against what we think we should get in return. Holy S#!t you're a genius! Please tell me you're on the Negotiating Committee.

(Edit: Just woke up from my blissful numb minding, acid like euphoric, NyQuil induced state of clarity; you want to give it up for $5000 like you said a while back in your original manifesto about PS. The world is even clearer now....now I know what self-actualization is all about.)

Originally Posted by Hixdog (Post 1822393)

Carl, We get you don't like anything ALPA including ALPA PAC,

Originally Posted by Hixdog (Post 1822393)

...but the fact remains ALPA PAC gives to both sides of the aisle to try and protect OUR jobs.

Originally Posted by Hixdog (Post 1822393)

You can make it some sort of left wing conspiracy thing if it makes you feel better.

Originally Posted by IAV84DAL (Post 1822575)

Really? Sarcasm? I've laid out my "manifesto" in broad strokes. Yes, I'd like to see C2K restored as a starter toward "Restoring the Profession". If we're in fact "Takin' it Back" it means presenting a pay scale that demands recognition of our skillset. PS is not part of that recognition. I believe that offering PS as a trade is a losing strategy because it plays into managements (and the NMB) position that PS is compensation. The idea that PS will never be as big a bargaining chip as it will be next week is real. If we squander that leverage we might as well lay the bet on if that's the case. And I've said that too in my letter to my reps.

As for the annuity, I know we're not getting a pension like C2K but I'd like to read our NC obtained a Annuity for EVERY pilot which might go so far as an additional 20K a year in retirement for a 30 year career. Maybe it runs out if you live to 90. So what? Its a good idea and it benefits ALL of us instead of just a few. I don't need it but it helps those who do.

PS is a big shiny box and its got an allure I give you that. But its a concession. Pure and simple. A concession we made to prevent a worse outcome. We need to fix that pronto.

Originally Posted by DeadHead (Post 1822388)

So I'll ask you again, with all aspects of the contract remaining for the most part status quo, what percentage increase in compensation would, in your mind, justify the elimination of the current PWA profit sharing?

Originally Posted by IAV84DAL (Post 1822396)

I reject the premise of your question.

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 1822402)

Any profit sharing givebacks/trades are self starters from the union. There are no indications that it is on the company's desire list as we are in line with most of the other company work groups.