Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-01-2015, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Hawaii50
Exactly. Seems like such a small thing I can't believe the company even notices this anyway. Some Capt or FO is going to get a trip bought and definitely shouldn't have a recovery obligation. It was the company's choice to buy it and it helps them out.
With AE's coming out 6 times a year, retirements and upgrades taking place and a fleet that has so many types and categories, I'm sure the lost productivity is a factor in pilot staffing. Now they can pay GS pay and recover some of that productivity, but I'm sure the GS acceptance rate is harder for the company to predict .
It would be a real efficiency gain for the company in pay/people to recover some of that FO manpower at straight pay that will otherwise be lost and have to be repurchased at much higher rate.
05-01-2015, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Elliot
That's a pretty classy post, Fegelein. 
05-01-2015, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Sputnik
I've heard the same. Including from an LCA who said he heard it from RA himself. My impression they weren't looking to put it under the old system where you basically went to reserve (recovery?). Instead I think they were looking at forecasting, basically figuring how much training in a month. Once they figured a given LCA would have 3 of 4 trips be IOE, they'd pull those trips. As in, once A sched complete, those trips wouldn't even be available to be assigned to Bs.
05-01-2015, 06:23 PM
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And what if the LCA doesnt end up doing OE, or drops the trip? Would it go into the pot? Would a reserve FO get it?
Concession
Concession
05-01-2015, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Sink r8
I don't think it effects any captains (quite the opposite), but probably will affect them, when senior FO's find it undesirable to stay in the right seat.
05-01-2015, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Purple Drank
And what if the LCA doesnt end up doing OE, or drops the trip? Would it go into the pot? Would a reserve FO get it?
Concession
Concession
But what if the company tells negotiators that this is worth 2% in rates across the board due to productivity gains and slightly reduced manning. Do we leave 2% for everyone behind or say yes to this "concession". Everything has a price.
If the company really wanted CDO's for pilots, they could have CDO pay to double CDO trips.... guess what they'd go so senior a junior pilot would never see one. Then to undue that in a contract would be a concession.
05-01-2015, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by full of luv
There is no doubt a change will be a "concession".
But what if the company tells negotiators that this is worth 2% in rates across the board due to productivity gains and slightly reduced manning. Do we leave 2% for everyone behind or say yes to this "concession". Everything has a price.
If the company really wanted CDO's for pilots, they could have CDO pay to double CDO trips.... guess what they'd go so senior a junior pilot would never see one. Then to undue that in a contract would be a concession.
But what if the company tells negotiators that this is worth 2% in rates across the board due to productivity gains and slightly reduced manning. Do we leave 2% for everyone behind or say yes to this "concession". Everything has a price.
If the company really wanted CDO's for pilots, they could have CDO pay to double CDO trips.... guess what they'd go so senior a junior pilot would never see one. Then to undue that in a contract would be a concession.
Interesting thing to note is I was in GRR on a foggy morning not to long ago. You could look up and see blue skies. You look forward and see 200' in one direction, look in the other, 20'. So the first flight out had a FA crew on a lean over. They eventually timed out and they cancelled a flight around 8 or 9am because of a flight crew duty day.
That just doesn't seem wise.
05-01-2015, 08:02 PM
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Again with the OE recovery thing, I don't get them. I sit right at the top 1/3 mark and I can't even hold LCA. I don't even bid it. It's a super senior thing to do.
However, if I have a trip and a LCA picks it up and OE is put on it, I don't want to be put on the top of reserve and just go anywhere, even if it's within the confines of the original trip. I bid the trips I want for a reason. And I'm talking 717 trips.
If I was a breadsticks and cognac type freak on the ER and bid certain international trips for their wine and cheeses and kept losing the trips for TOE and instead sent out on bad domestic trips, I'd be unhappy. I'd go outside and throw stuff in the backyard. Maybe get in my car and honk my horn. Maybe even drive up and down the street and honk my horn. Mad.
However, if I have a trip and a LCA picks it up and OE is put on it, I don't want to be put on the top of reserve and just go anywhere, even if it's within the confines of the original trip. I bid the trips I want for a reason. And I'm talking 717 trips.
If I was a breadsticks and cognac type freak on the ER and bid certain international trips for their wine and cheeses and kept losing the trips for TOE and instead sent out on bad domestic trips, I'd be unhappy. I'd go outside and throw stuff in the backyard. Maybe get in my car and honk my horn. Maybe even drive up and down the street and honk my horn. Mad.
05-01-2015, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Hrkdrivr
One of my trips on May has an "L" prefix in front of every flight number / turn and "OE" marked in the far right column of every segment (4-day trip!), and there's a note under the FO/Captain information that says: "XXX LCA XXXX/XX EMP# TO GIVE 717 INIT CPT IOE TO XXX
XXXX/XX EMP#"
Near as I can tell they've bought the trip.
23.G.5.a. says, "If the First Officer is removed from his entire rotation, he will be guaranteed pay and credit for the scheduled credit of such rotation." I guess under 23.G.5.c.2. they could still require me to DH to or fly any part of the trip, but it looks like they bought the whole thing.
I'm digging this so far.
Questions:
1. Obviously, unless I'm formally notified of being removed, I will show up at sign-in time. If it happens, who will notify me? Scheds? LCA? When? A week out? Day prior? Day of?
2. Based on a search and replies to one of MikeF16's questions, I think if I'm removed I can pickup another trip / put in for a GS if I want, true? Can't find it in the PWA. How soon can I do that, i.e. do I need to wait to be officially notified?
3. Seems kinda early for this to be on my schedule (~2-weeks out); too early to be excited?
XXXX/XX EMP#"
Near as I can tell they've bought the trip.
23.G.5.a. says, "If the First Officer is removed from his entire rotation, he will be guaranteed pay and credit for the scheduled credit of such rotation." I guess under 23.G.5.c.2. they could still require me to DH to or fly any part of the trip, but it looks like they bought the whole thing.
I'm digging this so far.
Questions:
1. Obviously, unless I'm formally notified of being removed, I will show up at sign-in time. If it happens, who will notify me? Scheds? LCA? When? A week out? Day prior? Day of?
2. Based on a search and replies to one of MikeF16's questions, I think if I'm removed I can pickup another trip / put in for a GS if I want, true? Can't find it in the PWA. How soon can I do that, i.e. do I need to wait to be officially notified?
3. Seems kinda early for this to be on my schedule (~2-weeks out); too early to be excited?
Not sure but the notification may be switching to an automated call. I got robo-called on Monday to tell me I had a trip bought off (Tuesday report). You know the call "If this is Joe Pilot - Press 1." It notified me that my rotation changed and I acknowledged.
5 minutes later a scheduler called me with the same info but did not seem to be aware of the robo-call.
This happened at 3pm PDT so it was only 6 PM in Mecca.
Regarding giving this up in C-2015 - Well that is a very strong incentive to a "No" vote.
In case you guys have not heard - we are making historic, record profits. So yeah - lets come up with a few more concessions.
Scoop
Last edited by Scoop; 05-01-2015 at 11:03 PM.
05-02-2015, 03:53 AM
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Only extremely senior first officers are flying with line check airman right now (top 10 percent in category). If you look at the top bids in PBS, every single one of the senior guys try to make every single one of their trips with a LCA to take a chance that some of their trips will be bought. If you change it back to recovery obligations, flying with LCA will go junior again. Everyone first officer on the list will br affected by this change.
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