Originally Posted by slowplay

Now back to your regularly scheduled "I want more" Latest and Greatest...

Originally Posted by forgot to bid

Why does our union get so mad at us? Maybe we our 2.5% isn't enough to warrant permission to question.

Originally Posted by Spacemann Splif

Now that's deep.

Just another example of euphamistic, vacuous, and absolutely worthless tripe posted by a union shill.

My dues are paying for this?

Originally Posted by Check Essential

The problem is that they and the rest of the Moak team continue to operate under the philosophy that its their job to help management make Delta Air Lines profitable. The Moak administration has put the needs of management ahead of, or at least on par with, those of the pilots.
Some of that is fine. I'm all for a cooperative relationship. But its gotten out of balance. The MEC has started to think like management. They view our contractual rights as a "cost". As something that only hinders the corporation in its quest for world domination.
Now they're on this website starting to soften up the audience for the next secret LOA or JV or whatever, to accomodate "shared flying" with JAL. They predict doom and gloom if we don't go along.
They may be right. (although I'm not entirely convinced). But if we are going to be taking all these risks in partnership with management then we should also share in the rewards. Its time for some financial restoration.

This JAL deal better include some money for the pilots. Its pretty obvious we aren't bankrupt anymore if we've got the resources to finance Japan Airlines' restructuring. We shouldn't have to wait another 3-5 years to get some improvements to our bankruptcy pay rates.

I hope the MEC will remember who they represent in this negotiation.
Quit explaining to me why the corporation needs this and that from the pilots.
Start explaining to the corporation why the pilots need some things from them.

Originally Posted by Check Essential

Yes. We want more.
We think we deserve it and we think the company can afford it.

Our MEC portrays wanting more as just internet fantasy. Smiley face silliness.
That's what needs to change. That attitude right there.

Moak has tasked you to manage expectations down. It ain't gonna fly anymore.

Originally Posted by slowplay

I just never feel the love from you, CLMP!

Originally Posted by Check Essential

Yes. We want more.
We think we deserve it and we think the company can afford it.

Moak has tasked you to manage expectations down. It ain't gonna fly anymore.

Originally Posted by alfaromeo

I am sorry, but this is just a bunch of baloney. If you look at our contract in bankruptcy, our bankruptcy returns, our stock from the merger, and our contract gains in the merger, can you find any other pilot group that came out of this better off than we did? Do you think that management just gave that up easily? How about the shareholders?

We took 13% of the company coming out of bankruptcy. 13%. $1.3 billion when we sold it. What do you think the other creditors said when they saw that figure? Do you think they said "oh gee, they are nice fellows, let's give that up" or do you think they all took a massive dump simultaneously which probably dropped the water pressure in New York for a while? They treated that claim like we were stealing their children.

So we sell our stock at the equivalent of $25 a share to a bunch of big time investors, and the stock has NEVER sold for a price higher than that. Now the merger comes along and we say to those same guys, "hey we want 5.5% of the company back from you." What do you think the reaction to that was? They were laughing at us until we got the stock and then they were hated us.

If you remember, NW and the NW pilots were the leaders in establishing a joint venture. The match with KLM allowed them to fly from a bunch of non hub cities to AMS, routes they could never justify without the joint venture. Look at PIT-CDG and PHL-CDG, we could never fly those routes without our joint venture with Air France. Heck, CVG-CDG would probably be gone without it.

The key to the joint venture is to avoid getting caught as the domestic only partner. Since our code share with Air France, our international flying has increased dramatically, some of it due to the code share, some of it not. The Delta MEC has led the way in creating a mutual support arrangement with the KLM/Air France unions and getting that mutual support written into our contract. That is not in management's interest, that is in the Delta pilots' interest.

If we develop a JV with JAL, then you will probably see the same evolution. First, the MEC will travel to Tokyo for a meeting with the JAL pilots. Sometime they will travel to the US and meet with our MEC. Next, we will get involved into the corporate agreement between the two sides from the very beginning so that we can ensure our interests are considered from step 1. Finally, we will negotiate Joint Venture language into our contract which will ensure that growth is shared between the two groups. Most likely, along the way, people like you will claim this is all concessionary. Right up until we start adding flights to Haneda.

If you have any questions, ask Hauenstein if our international footprint would grow or shrink without the AF/KLM joint venture. He will state unequivocally that it would shrink. Our domestic system would take a hit also, primarily in gauge. Glen does not get involved in pilot negotiations so he just says what he thinks.

A joint venture can be a gain for the company and a loss for the pilots. It can also be a gain for both. We have managed the AF/KLM joint venture so that is has benefited both. I am pretty sure a JAL joint venture would be the same thing.

In January, less than 3 years from bankruptcy, we will pretty much have the best contract amongst the network carriers. How did that happen?

Originally Posted by slowplay

Really?

Why did you get 17% payraises, 6% of the company, tightened scope, and other improved contract provisions with the JCBA? I doubt you know who I am, so you clearly don't know if and by whom this anonymous webboard pseudonym has been "tasked." We're getting more, so your statement doesn't jive with the facts.

As far as the company affording it, they've offered borrowed money for some of the assets of JAL. They're also contracted to give you 5% more in pay and DC in 6 weeks while the company is losing money....

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp

Scope was not tightened in the JCBA, and lord knows how much negotiating capital was wasted on that stupid no furlough clause.