That's what I thought. FAR 117 life is much better than your CFI life was, but you are wrong in what you are arguing here. Those of us who actually worked under the old rules know how it is. I never did more than 5 days in a row domestic for the first 11 years of my career. I don't think I ever saw more than 8:00 block in a day in the first 9,000 hours of my career.

Since 117 I've done back to back 4 day domestic trips probably a dozen times not by choice and so far lots of three leg 8:45 block days.

The only improvement with 117 is we get more hours guaranteed behind the door. It is a fact that companies can now back up domestic trips and keep us on the road longer than they did pre 117. If you had worked at Compass pre 117, you would be agreeing with me 100%.....I promise. I'm not arguing to be a dick, I'm arguing because what I'm saying is fact. You are the only one on this board who will probably disagree with me.

I don't actually know the answer to that because domestically it never mattered. You would run into the 30 in 7 block limit way before that unless you were only flying 4 hours average per day which no airline does. When they hit that limit they had no choice but to give you a day off to get back under the 30 hour block limit and then the 24 hour rule was satisfied as well. Since it couldn't be scheduled that way, no airlines ever did more than 5 day domestic trips and most had limits on block that could be built in a 6 day period. Delta was 29:00 to give them a 1 hour buffer so they didn't have to drop turns to comply with the limit.

So I only worked at Compass post 117 and never worked at another 121 carrier prior to that. Got it. That means I started at Compass no earlier than 2014.

Why do you think someone that worked pre-117 has to agree with you? I did and I actually find myself getting more time at home, more rest, while work less flight duty hours than I did pre-117.

Why do you think I am lying?

And for the record, I actually like flying a productive 35 hour 5 day trip with low flight duty periods that don't exceed 10-12 hours max. The old rules sucked with 16 hour flight duty periods. You can fly 70+ hours in two 5 day blocks of work and have 3 large off day blocks in a month. Under the old rules, you would need at least 3 work blocks to achieve 70+ hours. There are some benefits to no 30 block hour in 7 limit anymore. I believe the 60 flight duty limit in 7 days does a good job mitigating exhaustion.

I always felt more tired when I had a lot of flight duty hours in 7 days. I think that was the reasoning behind the FAA to institute a 60 hour flight duty limit in 7 days, since they said anything over that was causing pilots to lose effectiveness. Remember 80+ hours could happen pre-117.

Points taken, thank you.

As a Domestic pilot--> 24/7 was hit upon me. More than a couple of times I was afforded 24 hours off of duty, at home because of the threat of working or being on duty for 7 days straight.

I am almost, 80%, certain. If you look at the definition of the FAR duties/rest, you can conclude the same.

Not to beat a dead horse, but 117 seems to be better for the Regional Airlines. I, for one, feel like I work more and harder on 117..

117 seems to be a band-aid, administered to the Legacy Airlines by the FAA, to help mitigate a pilot shortage by creating a more efficient and more productive work group. And 117 is a way to fortify our US Airline economy by keeping us churning.

We all know what really would happen if true safety regulations were adopted:

1)US airlines will go belly up
2)Slave ship, non work rule, Airlines like Emirates will flourish

TEN

I would disagree on the more productive part. The old rule was 100 hours in a month domestic or 120 hours a month international. The change to 100 hours in any 28 day rolling period has had a big impact on major airlines. Trips now have to be constantly broken up to find pilots to fly them which adds a ton of DH time. I know my company hates the 100 hour rule.

That's another point that should be considered. 117 has a 28 day lookback for 100 block hours. Domestically, the old rules reset the lookback at the beginning of every month, meaning you could fly 30 hours in the last 7 days of one month and 90 hours in the first 21 days of the next month, totaling 120 hours in the previous 28 days.

While 117 eliminated the 30 block hour limit in 7 days, it instituted a 100 block hour limit in 28 days, whereas the old rule allowed 120 hours in 28 days over month-to-month transitions, domestically.

I guess 80+ hours could and did happen at some of the regional airlines pre 117. I will give you that. That is really the entire reason the rules were changed in the first place. I honestly can't remember doing anything much more than 70 when I worked at Coex, but I might have done. I do remember going home a day early on lots of occasions when the 30 in 7 block limit kicked in. I know I had never been gone from home longer than 5 days in my career pre 117 and now it happens regularly and I get my rest in a hotel in Fargo instead of at home. NOT better in any way.

117 is better for rest on layovers. That is a good change. If I were king I would require the 30 hours to be in the pilots domicile and not count layovers for that rest. But I'll never be king so I'll just complain about it.

If we disagree, no hard feelings. You regional guys still work way harder than you should no matter what the regs say. 3 leg days are punishment for me anymore. :) (still remember 9 legs days in the Brasilia in the summer in Houston)

Back in the day, DAL lines were blocked at 73:00, 74:00. Max pay was 75, every thing else was carry over (Banked). 16, 17 days off, you could live with it. Just watch out for the 2 engine ferries with the Stinsons.......

Dang....I just did a 5-day that paid 26 hours. We never see domestic 5-days worth more than about 30. Most of ours pay 26-28. 4-days are almost all 21 hours. I would love flying a domestic 5 day worth 35 hours......just not 2 of them back to back. :)

I ususally fly 3 5 days a month for about 75-80 hours. Sometimes I'll pick up a 2 day to get a little more. Doing 2 5-days a month plus a 2 day for the same 80 hours would be awesome. I'd probably just complain that there were too many legs and too short of layovers though so maybe not.

Yeah, you'd be amazed at how they can make trips productive if they really need to. I thought 30/7 going away would suck, but in my mind I think I always was more tired due to a lot of flight duty hours in 7 and not really the block. The really lucky pilots snagged some of the 38 hour 5 day trips we had and got their 75 hours in just 2 work blocks totaling 10 days. Really great for the commuter. We did have one pilot fly 6 MSP-YVR daytrips in a row for 42 hours of pay and 58 hours of flight duty. I bet he was tired after that, but he didn't need to work a lot for the rest of the month.

And don't think I disagree with you that a pilot should get at least a day off at home every 7 if they want. I think it sucks that it is not in the contract. If I had a preference, it would be that no pilot would be forced into anything longer than 4 days of work in a row and that they would also be given at least 2 days off every 7 if they wanted.