The more designated rest the better... as it can affect legality for green slips for those who want them, or white slips in a regular line month that follows reserve. I've learned the hard way that simply doing nothing for days on end while on long call doesn't count as rest. If only I could show them what a I'm doing! Of course, the same rules can be helpful when after 6 or 7 unused RES days we must be forced into 30 hours rest.

It's all pretty ridiculous when you step back and look at this system from a distance.

 

Right, but either way he would be just as legal. A single day off is 24 hours plus 00:00-10:00 worst case makes it 34 hours. No need to code R or rest in that particular situation.

Why they wouldn't release someone at noon when they were on a 12 hour last day long call and legally unable for anything else may be silly but its not illegal as long as no illegal assignment was actually assigned/accepted/flown.

 

I get that and in that particular situation I don't see why they'd be against the earlier release. But in any case its not necessary to code rest for FAR's when you'll get at least 34-36 hours off and free from duty with a single X or * day regardless (assuming you were legal for whatever else you did before that).

 

I don't disagree. But since they can't really use me out of long call in my last 12 hours of a day, they would seem to do better to start my rest at noon, and potentially free me up to fly green slips reporting on that first X day...or early AM (e.g., 0500) on the day following that one.

What good am I at 1400 on long call my last day? It has to be pretty far down the coverage ladder to actually sign in on a soft no-fly day, different from being flown into one.

 

The callout period doesn't count as rest towards the 30hrs because that period is started by a required notification.

 

You went from "I didn't think they needed to" straight to "they don't need to." Hopefully it makes sense now why that isn't the case. You aren't free of duty when they notify you of the trip that can't report 10-12 hrs out on day 1 (specifically the required notification at midnight via phone even if you are allowed to do so on your off time prior to that to stop the call).

 

What callout period are you talking about? I'm not referring to the last 12 hours of one's LC. Obviously, if you're not released for your last 12 hours before an off day, those 12 hours can't be considered rest. However you will still get over 30 hours of rest with zero obligation from a single day off because you can't get an assignment prior to 10AM or Noon. So you'll always get 34 or 36 hours of rest with a single day off, regardless of if scheduling marks it R or not.

 

What are you talking about? Do you think your rest ends at 23:59 (assuming a single X day for example)? Because there is no "mandatory notification" at 00:00. You can't get anything before 10AM on your first day on. Period. And there is no obligation to even have your phone on during that time. Period. You are 100% free from any and all obligations. That's how I understand it and how it was explained to me by literally everyone (company schedulers, union reps and DALPA scheduling ninjas, etc). You can, at your leisure, check your schedule anytime, but a single X day is always at least 34 hours off. If that's not the case and your version is correct, then we have a lot of pilots flying illegally.

 

As far as I'm aware, scheduling is ensuring 30 hrs otherwise so no, we don't have pilots flying illegally. Nice job trying to make it a "are you saying EVERYONE is busting FARs" question though.

Your long call reserve period starts at 0001 and the FAA has already said that time on long call is not rest. Just because the first assignment can't be until a long call callout (that is reduced first day if assigned enough in advance) does not make it rest any more than 30hrs without a long call assignment during a work period would reset your rest clock. There is no difference between the two. A single X day does mean a minimum of 34 hrs before your next assignment but it does not give you a 30hr rest period.

Since "literally everyone" told you it's at least 34 hrs off... why don't you ask them about it. Period.

Just to make this perfectly clear, under your logic, if you worked 5 days of long call without an assignment you would be legal for a 4 day trip since you never had to answer the phone.

Furthermore, Section 23.S.3.a of the PWA states that a pilot on long call "must be available for contact by crew scheduling at any time while on call." The exception is that you are not contactable for 12 hrs before the report of an assignment from long call. No assignment means no release from being contactable.

So yes, you do have an obligation to have you phone on when long call and no assignment. In practice that means you just have to check messages and consider that rest started from 12 hrs prior to assignment.

Now since you listed all the people who told you that it would count as a 30hr rest period... you really should ask some of them to confirm that. I will be shocked if a single one does.

 

I'm pretty sure this isn't correct, because you're phone liable at midnight so you're not technically at rest. Hence the minimum of 10 (12 contractually) hours from notification to the beginning of your FDP. A lot of times you might end up having 30+ hours of rest, but if you didn't know in advance, then it doesn't count as far as 117 is concerned.

When I've been on reserve and had one X day in the middle of a lot of on call days, scheduling has usually specifically altered my start time coming off the X day to give me a complete 30hrs off (they do this before your X day starts).

Edit: exactly what Baradium beat me to saying.