Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
11-23-2018 | 02:41 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,370
Likes: 0
From: 737 FO
I'm pretty sure this isn't correct, because you're phone liable at midnight so you're not technically at rest. Hence the minimum of 10 (12 contractually) hours from notification to the beginning of your FDP. A lot of times you might end up having 30+ hours of rest, but if you didn't know in advance, then it doesn't count as far as 117 is concerned.
11-23-2018 | 02:42 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,138
Likes: 557
11-23-2018 | 03:06 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 5,145
Likes: 111
It's really quite simple.
11-23-2018 | 05:29 PM
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,015
Likes: 13
What are you talking about? Do you think your rest ends at 23:59 (assuming a single X day for example)? Because there is no "mandatory notification" at 00:00. You can't get anything before 10AM on your first day on. Period. And there is no obligation to even have your phone on during that time. Period. You are 100% free from any and all obligations. That's how I understand it and how it was explained to me by literally everyone (company schedulers, union reps and DALPA scheduling ninjas, etc). You can, at your leisure, check your schedule anytime, but a single X day is always at least 34 hours off. If that's not the case and your version is correct, then we have a lot of pilots flying illegally.
That’s not how this works at all. Your X day ends at midnight and you are back on long call. Don’t confuse the fact that the earliest assignment can be at 1000 for being at rest until 1000. You are very much on call at midnight unless they put you in rest before a short call or trip assignment. Check your reserve rest period info in iCrew. When you are given an assignment 9 hours before the end of your X day they will put a 12 hour rest period in there. If you don’t get an assignment there won’t be anything and you are on call at midnight.
And you need 6 hours of rest at the end of an on call day before a single X day because the 30 hours has to be prospective. You can’t extend your rest to 6 AM on your first on call day and have it count (unless that is done prospectively which they won’t do because it cuts down on your availability)
As for the people that said you have no obligations to have your phone on during the 10 hours they are technically correct, but only because we don’t have to acknowledge assignments on long call. That doesn’t necessarily mean you are at rest.
11-23-2018 | 06:21 PM
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 353
Likes: 3
What callout period are you talking about? I'm not referring to the last 12 hours of one's LC. Obviously, if you're not released for your last 12 hours before an off day, those 12 hours can't be considered rest. However you will still get over 30 hours of rest with zero obligation from a single day off because you can't get an assignment prior to 10AM or Noon. So you'll always get 34 or 36 hours of rest with a single day off, regardless of if scheduling marks it R or not.
As far as I'm aware, scheduling is ensuring 30 hrs otherwise so no, we don't have pilots flying illegally. Nice job trying to make it a "are you saying EVERYONE is busting FARs" question though.
Your long call reserve period starts at 0001 and the FAA has already said that time on long call is not rest. Just because the first assignment can't be until a long call callout (that is reduced first day if assigned enough in advance) does not make it rest any more than 30hrs without a long call assignment during a work period would reset your rest clock. There is no difference between the two. A single X day does mean a minimum of 34 hrs before your next assignment but it does not give you a 30hr rest period.
Since "literally everyone" told you it's at least 34 hrs off... why don't you ask them about it. Period.
Just to make this perfectly clear, under your logic, if you worked 5 days of long call without an assignment you would be legal for a 4 day trip since you never had to answer the phone.
Furthermore, Section 23.S.3.a of the PWA states that a pilot on long call "must be available for contact by crew scheduling at any time while on call." The exception is that you are not contactable for 12 hrs before the report of an assignment from long call. No assignment means no release from being contactable.
So yes, you do have an obligation to have you phone on when long call and no assignment. In practice that means you just have to check messages and consider that rest started from 12 hrs prior to assignment.
Now since you listed all the people who told you that it would count as a 30hr rest period... you really should ask some of them to confirm that. I will be shocked if a single one does.
Your long call reserve period starts at 0001 and the FAA has already said that time on long call is not rest. Just because the first assignment can't be until a long call callout (that is reduced first day if assigned enough in advance) does not make it rest any more than 30hrs without a long call assignment during a work period would reset your rest clock. There is no difference between the two. A single X day does mean a minimum of 34 hrs before your next assignment but it does not give you a 30hr rest period.
Since "literally everyone" told you it's at least 34 hrs off... why don't you ask them about it. Period.
Just to make this perfectly clear, under your logic, if you worked 5 days of long call without an assignment you would be legal for a 4 day trip since you never had to answer the phone.
Furthermore, Section 23.S.3.a of the PWA states that a pilot on long call "must be available for contact by crew scheduling at any time while on call." The exception is that you are not contactable for 12 hrs before the report of an assignment from long call. No assignment means no release from being contactable.
So yes, you do have an obligation to have you phone on when long call and no assignment. In practice that means you just have to check messages and consider that rest started from 12 hrs prior to assignment.
Now since you listed all the people who told you that it would count as a 30hr rest period... you really should ask some of them to confirm that. I will be shocked if a single one does.
11-23-2018 | 06:31 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 20,876
Likes: 193
Just to clarify one thing in this thread. You do not have to have a phone with you or be immediately contactable on long call. You must check at least every 10 hours to see if you have been given an assignment if you want to leave yourself 2 hours to report.
11-24-2018 | 09:01 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,831
Likes: 172
From: window seat
Never said that. I was only referring to the first assignment. And I also didn't say that every pilot flies illegally. The only issue here, which you are getting super spun up about and taking it personally, is the requirement to specifically notate R over an X or * day to get the extra 6 hours beyond what a 24 hour "off day" gives you. Since we don't have any obligation whatsoever to do anything coming off an off day for at least another 10 hours, including zero obligation to "schedule check" (especially during those first 6 hours in question, and especially at the stroke of midnight) how can it be duty or not rest during that period is there is zero obligation of any kind during that period?
11-24-2018 | 09:03 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,831
Likes: 172
From: window seat
11-24-2018 | 09:06 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,831
Likes: 172
From: window seat
Right. So with zero obligation of any kind whatsoever at midnight (and for at least 6 more hours to 6AM to get 30 total which is really the only point of this sub-thread) how is 00:00-06:00 considered an interruption of rest when you have no obligation whatsoever to do anything for the company whatsoever including be phone available or even be in the same state as your phone?
11-24-2018 | 09:57 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,610
Likes: 625
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
