What would we give JAL in return? I assume DALPA is going to have to negotiate with the JAL group over the JV scope language just like they did AF/KLM. So if JAL needs to pull down the international flights to cut costs and we end up flying their 747's, how much of the current Narita flying do we give to JAL. I can't imagine we are just going to gain all of the JAL international stuff they need to cut and not give something to the JAL guys in return. It would be great if it worked that way, but I doubt it will if we start painting widgets on their airplanes.

Just wait and see what the deal if any entails. No reason to jump the gun.

No matter what this deal give us I still get to go to at least one if not two schools this year.

Timeline for these type of things run years. Just remember that.

I am very Pro-JAL-DAL. It is a deal that will do a great many things for this corporation. It better translate in to good news for us too, but in the end, we NEED the deal. We also NEED to keep AS or buy about 50 73N's to perform the flying they are doing for us.

Not knowing any of the details, but I would think that throwing them a financial life line is giving them something in return. Sort of like a package deal: We give you X amount of dollars, you give us X amount of routes, planes or both.

Again, just a WAG, but it would allow JAL to rightsize (ie. downsize) while staying afloat.

JAL may be in their version of CH11 very shortly. Maybe DAL will be the DIP. You never know what may transpire. Once we have our deal we are in the drivers seat. If they can starve off CH11 until we sign on the dotted line, that is good, because if give DAL a lot more control for very little money up front.

JAL is rumored to be pulling out of their international markets, if this actually does happen, the leak was made for one reason, to gauge reaction of the world market, et al.

Heyas New,

The 747 fence applied to any and all 747s (both -200s and -400s). Any new one's on the property that were NOT replacement aircraft would be fenced to the fNWA side, exactly the same that any and all 777s (again, that are NOT replacement AC) would be fenced to the fDAL side.

If any new 747s or 777s show up, over and above the current fleet count, without the parking of similar mission aircraft, then it's pretty cut and dried who gets what. If any aircraft show up in a PURE cargo configuration, then that's pretty clear also.

You also had a couple of generic whales in pax configuration doing charters that were parked along with the rest of the -200s, so there COULD be a claim of some kind of replacement for that lift, but we're talking about 2 airplanes (but important nonetheless, especially to the guys on them).

Practically speaking, the 777-200 and the 747-400 are the same (pay wise...absurd, but that ship has sailed), so really, doubleyou tee eff is the point of the fences at this stage of the game.

But the guys who the fences matter to are in charge, or at least have the ear/checkbook of the MEC, so make no mistake, this will continue to be a sore issue.

Nu

I hope your both right. It would be nice to see us get the JAL international routes and keep what we currently do over there.

Let's be very careful about gloating about taking another group of pilots' airplanes and routes. I'm sure this could mean many layoffs and downgrades for them and just because its from a foreign airline doesn't mean that it is ok to "steal" flying.......:(

I have pity for the employees of a company whose management has done such a poor job as to probably need bankruptcy. It sucks to likely lose pension benefits, pay and loss of positions.

Does that sound familiar to any of the "old-timers here?

***Though DAL and the ETIC will provide essentially "DIP" financing, it won't actually be bankruptcy but the effects will be the same***props to ACL for getting that point out first


How would DAL pilots feel if the 777 and 747's we have were to be painted in AF/KL colors and flown on the same schedule and city pairs that had just been flown by DAL crews...... Let's hope there is some light at the end of the tunnel for JAL pilots/employees too.

(I have less sympathy, but still some for "gai-jin contracted pilots" that might get the axe......)

Nu guy,

Thanks for the info. I hope it does not become a fight. THe problem with fences is that it prolongs a SLI that was issued a little over a year ago. We've come a long way since then.

Well said.