I agree completely. I never fell for the IBB thing. I voted no for everything. Ha I have a standing no vote in the computer. :D By the way, when you post in all bold letters, it makes it look like your yelling at me. ;)

SWA pilots make more than we do by a sizable amount. As a matter of fact, their FA's are the highest payed in the industry. Guess who's FA's are near the bottom of the pay scale? You guessed it, DAL. I know that isn't our fight here, but it is mine.

You're very confusing for a guy who worked so closely with management in the hiring process...:confused:

So what's the connection between SWA, FedEx, and UPS rates of pay (I'll leave out ABX because they're a shell of what they once were)...

How does it differ from Delta's situation?

All we need is a gun, right!?

Oh, and how are SWA FA's rated compared to their peers in airline surveys? Does profitability affect pay?

Sorry...not yelling. It was hard to type and I left it that way for consistancy. Side note. Tired of going to the pharmacy and having them double check my copays because they are so out of whack. My SWA neighbors pay a fraction of what we do for medical. I got some ideas on that as well.

Remember. It is all about the cash flow and revenue. Did they not just pay cash for the newest 777?

OK, now we're getting somewhere....

How about drawing a chart of Free Cash flow and profitability and compare it to various airline contracts over the last 10 years...

It ain't all about the leadership. That plays a big part. But you're starting to break the code.:p

Oh, they paid cash while we're $17 billion in debt. Compare that and DAL's interest service to our peers. Maybe you can come to some more logical conclusions!;)

There are all kinds of debt. Good and bad, high interest, low interest, short term and long. There are coporate bonds as well and their subsequent ratings.

It is the executive managements job to manage that debt. Period. Not the pilots. They can point to it all they want and scream that there is not enough for pay increases and benefit gains. "The pie is only so big."

Excepting that is having your expectations professionally managed.

Regardless, we should not be used as a tool to help with any of their business decisions. We should not except less to subsidize their management of the company and their executive compensation. Enough of being their ATM. Try selling their same arguement to Boeing, GE, Airbus, parts suppliers, Panasonic, and their fuel suppliers.

The health of the balance sheet should not be an issue. We should be a fixed cost. We are really contractors just like the above named groups. Perhaps it is time to examine how we are paid...and have been so since the beinging of commercial aviation...and come up with some viable alternatives on either the Delta side or as a ALPA national.

This will take unity and leadership. Both are sorely lacking. We need to build a good base before we can proceed and it starts with the leadership issue. That is essential at this point. Do we currently have the leadership that can accomplish this?

Brake replacements up by 150% by June 2012 then?:) oh BOB where are you?

SWA pay is high, but they still have one of the lowest block hour pilot costs around, so when your planes are flying more, you can pay the pilots more.

I'm not quite sure what you are talking about with your first statement. I never said or implied that I worked with management in the hiring process. What exactly do you mean by that??

I guess the rest of your post has a meaning that wages are tied in with profitablity. Yes that is true, but we don't always have the luxury of negotiating when things are rosy. Due to the cyclical nature of our airline, we have gone through many contract negotiations on the economic down side. When times got good and we asked for a bump, the answer was, and I paraphrase, "Sorry Boys, but a contract is a contract."

Who was it that looked for the definition of Quixotic?;)

You started down an argument regarding FedEx, ABX, UPS, and SWA. When the facts don't suit your argument....

btw, how big is ABX compared to 6 years ago? What's the total pilot payroll? I'd say they've given and given big....losing your job and your company is one hell of a concession. Ask Wilmington, Ohio how your theory is working out for them!

I've lived the attitude that "it's management's problem." I watched a MEC administration that typed really bellicose letters and took no action. That brought me LOA 46, bankruptcy, and a terminated pension. It's my career. I'm not going to abdicate it to turnstyle "TheManager" again.
Why some want to return to that mentality is astounding to me...

It's management's problem...just live with the consequences....thanks!:rolleyes: