Airline Pilot Central Forums - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by TANSTAAFL (Post 801876)

Alfa,

Good points on the negotiations and where the MEC needs to be. On the latter point I think you minimize the why and how they got there, and the accommodation part. I'm not justifying the tactics of the letters, only commenting again they are symptomatic of underlying issues.

The sooner we blend the two airline/MEC cultures the better off we will be - emphasis on melting pot. It's a new airline that happens to be called Delta, not the acquisition and assimilation of NWA pilots by DAL pilots. That will require accommodation on the part of both - so far the DALN pilots who make up apx. 40% of the airline have been doing 95% of the accommodating. I can see you are toning down your rhetoric and that is appreciated, but the implication is still if the fNW Reps would "just get with the program" and quit the divisiveness all would be well. Maybe we need a new program that is "best practices" of both :rolleyes:

I know that if we quit bringing up N v S issues and spat over them, then less and less pilots will see themselves as North or South and just a Delta pilot.

Part of the recovery is not to live in the past. We do not need to shut the door on it, but to live in that mindset serves no one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TANSTAAFL (Post 801876)

Good post, especially in terms of tone. As a spectator in the game of MEC ping-pong, let me step up to the table for a minute with some comments:

You're correct that this isn't the assimilation of NWA pilots by DAL pilots, yet the idea that this is "a new airline that just happens to be called Delta" sort of misses the mark too. For starters, if we're to accept the premise that we've only done 5% of the accomodation, then, obviously, that would make this... Delta. And sure enough, to most of us, it still feels mostly like Delta. It's a changed Delta to be sure. And it will have to be changed some more to make everyone happy. But for me, it has only changed in that you're now here, as a very substantial group, and that we'll indeed have to find a way to find "best practices".

Here is the good news: we all want to find those best practices. I don't think people are resistant to improvement. We're also not married to our procedures, but we won't change them just because you prefer them a certain way. I think the key here will be time: people sitting together in cockpits, trying to make sense of procedures and philosophies, and reaching consensus.

So, if you peel the layers, I think you'll see that the "accomodation" being discussed comes in many forms. A lot of this has to do with Flight Ops procedures. Some has to do with contractual issues. Accomodation for the NW pilots will happen naturally, in cockpits throughout the system, and as people train in MSP and ATL. It'll happen as cross-polination of bases occurs. It'll happen WRT to procedures, and it'll happen in terms of understanding our contract, and its' (many weaknesses). It'll happen in terms of a stance to take for our next negotiations. So fear not: there is no way two guys working in a cockpit together will not be accomodating, or unable to find common ground. That is what we do.

Once you remove all the things that are being changed, and need to be accomodated, my guess is that we're left with MEC politics. There, I don't really know what is occuring. I do agree with you that no one should expect any rep, of any azimuth, to "play along". Reps represent their pilots. Period. But to the extent some of this is about personal politics, and personal egos, I think most of us can see that the flames are often fanned by those with an axe to grind, and a personal purpose. In that sense, and in that sense only, I hope there will be no accomodation. I hope that anyone that wants to keep the groups divided, for the purpose of keeping their fiefdom intact, or anyone that likes dual-structures, for the purpose of reresenting "their group", is brushed aside, for the greater benefit of ALL our pilots. Whatever this airline is, it's not two airlines.

sorry to interrupt, i have a quick 2 part question. First can buddy passes be used to travel to europe? If so, can you book the travel, for example, to fly to Rome and back from Milan? Will it be 2 passes or still just one? thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superdad (Post 801901)

How much do you hate the person you want to send to Europe with a buddy pass?
1. Yes, you can use a pass to Europe, just be prepared to not get on.
2. Not sure about international, but I've done that domestically before. It was one pass only.

I've heard from several sources that Anderson wants this contract done and dusted by 1 Jan 2012. He would like nothing more than to be fully integrated and labor issues resolved while the other players are still squabbling and not realizing the synergies of a merger. That would put us, as in Delta, in the cat bird seat.

The question is, will we as a pilot group have the ability to take an offer quickly, realizing it's good but not "full restoration" in order to position our company for greater gains in the future? This goes along with what ACL has been talking about, incremental gains. Or will this group vote down a good contract with the attitude that there must be more on the table?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justdoinmyjob (Post 801875)

You sure about that?

23-3
c. A long call reserve pilot who is inversely assigned a rotation with a report that is within 12 hours of the first attempted contact will receive single pay, no credit for the first duty period of the rotation (in addition to any other pay and credit for the bid period).
Note: Inverse assignment of a long call reserve pilot within 12 hours of report will be by proffer.

Don't think this can be any clearer.

You and Johnso may be correct however, there are two sections in the contract that talk about IA's. The section that you have quoted is from

23. U. Green Slip (GS), Green Slip with Conflict (GSWC), Inverse Assignment (IA) and Inverse Assignment With Conflict (IAWC)—Pay and Credit/Pay and No Credit

There is also section:
23. R. Inverse Assignment (IA) and Inverse Assignment With Conflict (IAWC)

I understand that is is clearly stated in section 23.U but I don't know for sure that it is a hard fast "proffer for anything less than 12 hrs if on long call". It really doesn't matter because all of this discussion only relates if a pilot is on long call and if you just don't answer the phone when on long call, you can take a little more control over your destiny.

[quote=alfaromeo;801759]
Without getting into another fight, the key element is to get everyone rowing the same direction. The MEC will have internal differences within the reps and with the administration. Those differences should be fought but they should remain internal. The days of the scorching council emails have got to stop. The whole KW type poison pen letter has got to stop too. You simply cannot run an effective organization if you are constantly back stabbing each other (see the US Congress, both parties, for examples). Also, my personal opinion is that the former NWA reps need to work on healing the damage their old MEC did during the merger and SLI talks. I am sure that accommodations need to be made from others, but many of the players that initiated these scorched earth tactics are still around and they should take ownership of their actions. This is not a blame game, but it is what we are dealing with and it needs to be taken care of sooner rather than later.

I'll take the damage of NWA's MEC anyday over this current ALPA structure.How is signing backroom agreements for NYC 765 pilots over no short calls and not announcing it until pressed by line pilots helping to "get everyone rowing in the same direction" as you put it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by satchip (Post 801913)

Seems like logical, however, why are we not negotiating now? If he wanted it done that quickly it would be wise to start now. Unless he thinks he can just ram something down our throats and we will take. I may not have my finger on the pulse of the pilot group, but he is gonna have to make a pretty sweet offer to get it done quick and dirty inside of 6 months. Most guys know that full restoration may not be possible but they would like to come as close as they can.

Quote:

Originally Posted by satchip (Post 801913)

I guess to an extent that depends on how much you believe Anderson and how much you think you can predict the future.

For all we know they could be negotiating now. We just elected our NC, but they are responsible for Sec 6, correct? As ACL has pointed out, LOAs could be signed prior to Sec 6 for many side issues.

Let's say he does offer us a pretty sweet deal. Will we have the "courage" to take it or the "courage" to turn it down and hold out for more? Which is courage and which is stupidity depends on one's perspective, is suppose.

There is a saying, "the perfect is the enemy of the good enough". We want the whole enchilada. Can we be happy for one bite at a time or will we demand it all right now?