Originally Posted by tsquare

I don't wanna work in the sim. Don't wanna have anything to do with it.

Originally Posted by iaflyer

Not really a fair comparison, as the economy has cratered since 2008.

Originally Posted by NuGuy

Heyas,

I'm all for bringing the IP jobs back to line pilots.

For every IP doing training, you have to hire a guy to replace him. This equals more pilots, which is good.

At any one time, NWA had about 350 instructors of all stripes...CA/FO/SO. These guys did all training in a motion device and all checking events (except the SV, which was electronic), as well as LCA functions. It was also required that a line pilot, IP or otherwise, peform seat support (also good).

Most, if not all IPs, worked 6 months in the box and 6 on the line, broken up into different blocks. A lot did 2in/2out, but it varied. The crux was that in any given month, you probably had around 150 guys off line, which is a drop in the bucket if you're worried about costs (which, last time I checked, was a management job).

But anyway, you guys hopeful of waves of hiring are delusional. Airframes will continue to attrit out of the fleet, pilots will continue to retire and my guess is that you won't see any hiring other than to cover the absolute baseline. Any aircraft orders will be strictly on a replacement basis, and it won't be 1:1.

Any hopes of waves of retirements is also delusional. You guys, of all people, should know that pilots LOVE to say one thing, but do something else. When it comes time for guys to sign on the line, grab their crap, and walk out the door, you can better believe most will NOT do it. They have too good a deal going, and they know it.

If you took the two lists the day after the merger announcement, and added them together, how many pilots is that? How many do we have now?

More, or less? That is the measure of how well we're doing. Anything else is fluff and cover. My bet is that number will only go down.

Nu

Originally Posted by NuGuy

Then don't put in for it. It's not like they're going to force you.

However, LOTS of guys happen to like the duty, expecially when it's broken up.

It's a challenging job that breaks up the ho-hum of every day line flying, especially if its a 2sim/2line schedule. Some guys like the interaction, some guys like the schedule, and some guys like the technical aspects of it. I did it for a few years, and it was a great job. When flying the line got old, you'd hop in the sim for two months, and when that got old, you went back and flew the line for two.

Nu

Originally Posted by NuGuy

Irrelevant. You can be sure the company will use this as an excuse until time immortal, just like 9/11.

Originally Posted by NuGuy

By the time you delete all of the extraneous admin overhead that goes with it, I bet Ice is pretty close.


Nu

Originally Posted by iaflyer

It's not irrelevant - it crazy for an airline to maintain the same level of flights/staffing/aircraft independent of the overall economy. We were lucky that no one got furloughed after the high fuel prices in 2008 and very low yields that hit us in 2009.

I think Delta did the right thing by giving an incentive (too small, in my opinion) to get more retirements. That allowed them to shrink a little without ****ing off the employee groups. As the economy recovers, Delta should grow and hire more pilots and other staff (as they did this year).

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

Yes, since the date of "Constructive Notice." the number of DCI airframes has fallen by more than 60 jets. I suspect those in 44 will see more about this from their Sec/Tres.

I was referring more to 76 seat and above. It is my assertion that the 76 seat and below market will be a very small segment of the domestic lift by 2020. Keep the line where it is at, and DCI will shrink appreciably.

Originally Posted by sailingfun

We were not lucky to have no pilots furloughed. It was a carefully planned and executed strategy to over time layer in multiple financial penalties if the company were to attempt to furlough. I listened to Lee Moak talk about how to prevent furloughs right after he was elected and he detailed exactly what came to pass. Smart moves by the union prevented the furloughs not luck.

Originally Posted by boog123

I think we are down 70 plus mainline airframes since the merger (60 plus DC-9's, 319's and 747-200 while adding only 15ish)