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Originally Posted by NWA320pilot
(Post 929883)
What do you think the hourly operating cost of a 747 is? You know what our pay runs so doing the math isn't too hard. I did the math right after BK and on something like the 320 and it took less than $1 per hour of flight per pax to recoup what we had giving up in hourly rates. Not too much extra $$ (or percentage) when looking at everything . Management would love for us to believe our pay is a make or break deal but in reality the hourly rate is a very small part of the operation of DAL.
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Originally Posted by maddogmax
(Post 929884)
A taxi driver makes more per hour per pax then we do. I know it's comparing apples and oranges but food for thought.
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Originally Posted by NWA320pilot
(Post 929883)
What do you think the hourly operating cost of a 747 is? You know what our pay runs so doing the math isn't too hard. I did the math right after BK and on something like the 320 and it took less than $1 per hour of flight per pax to recoup what we had giving up in hourly rates. Not too much extra $$ (or percentage) when looking at everything . Management would love for us to believe our pay is a make or break deal but in reality the hourly rate is a very small part of the operation of DAL.
Cost to maintain reserve pilots? Retirement costs? Medical costs? Disability costs? Vacation costs? Trip and duty rig costs? In 2004 Delta pilot costs were about 2.3 billion a year on 15 to 16 billion in total expenses. The math is pretty easy. Post merger today with the latest pay increases I understand we are around 2.5 billion (larger group, much lower pay) today with the airlines total expenses in the 27 billion range. We deserve much higher pay and benefits. To try and state that pilot costs are a minimal expense to operate the airlines is however not the case. |
Add to that FICA and Medicare taxes which are percentages of wages. Most of us are maxed out on FICA but maybe not forever.
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Originally Posted by TANSTAAFL
(Post 929809)
You assume it's a negotiating ploy - they might simply buy said aircraft, and show no profits as they will be fully offset by capitol expenditures in fleet renewal, and say there is nothing to give.
Not my issue. We sell pilot services. Whatever is flown we will fly, what DAL, Inc. purchases for us to fly is not really our concern or relevant to the "costs that will be incurred for use" of my pilot services. They are independent of each other. |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 929882)
Our pay is a very large part of the operating expense of the aircraft. That is why managements fight so hard on the contracts. Remember this is a industry where a couple of percent advantage is huge. Pre 2004 pilot pay at Delta were over 15 percent of the cost to run a flight. Its around 9 percent now. Its one of the single largest controllable costs. Fuel is the largest cost. Pilots are probably second.
As far as management using orders to influence contracts here is Delta managements play sheet. When the contract negotiations heat up they will set up a series of road shows. They will talk all about their future fleet plans and how critical the contract is to this growth. They will trot out their 20 year old 100 seat power point presentation and tell all the co pilots how they will be Captains in 4 years if only Dalpa will cooperate. They will tell the Captains about how they are about to place the largest wide body order in history again if Dalpa would cooperate. In some cases they have tied the order directly to the pay rate on a specific aircraft. The MD88 is a example. They were given a lower pay rate then the aircraft should have had on the condition the company purchase a bunch of them. This is one of the few times the company has followed through on this type of promise. In 20 years the 100 seater never showed up and the worlds largest widebody order never happened. |
Originally Posted by satchip
(Post 929896)
Add to that FICA and Medicare taxes which are percentages of wages. Most of us are maxed out on FICA but maybe not forever.
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Originally Posted by hockeypilot44
(Post 929900)
We let our costs be controllable. This is another one of ALPA's many failures.
Not once has ALPA or DALPA gone against a pilot vote and signed something that the pilots voted NO for. Every time the MEMRAT vote is what determined the result. We need to start blaming ourselves. |
DO not forget that in most cities Taxi Cab Fares are regulated.......
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Good news for those LA based................
Let's go Lakers!!!!! :) |
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