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-   -   Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/36912-any-latest-greatest-about-delta.html)

acl65pilot 01-25-2011 07:04 AM


Originally Posted by Bluto (Post 935684)
Why is that? When they consolidated LA the category shrank. Or is that just because they were downsizing international in general?

The assumption is static staffing since there is no much domestic. Just a guess of course.

tsquare 01-25-2011 07:06 AM


Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 935660)
Agreed. When they do finally combine the 767 and ER in ATL they are looking at about 750 First Officers in the Category. That is massive. That does not include the Captains which will number near 600.


How does that compare to the numbers of having separate categories? Personally, I think that allowing international categories to fly domestic rotations "as long as they were published" was an abysmal failure of the ASSociation.

sailingfun 01-25-2011 07:30 AM


Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 935692)
How does that compare to the numbers of having separate categories? Personally, I think that allowing international categories to fly domestic rotations "as long as they were published" was an abysmal failure of the ASSociation.

International categories have been able to fly domestic rotations at Delta for at least the last 30 years. It really would not be workable in many bases to have it any other way. The company needs the ability to fly domestic legs with some international crews.
What has caused the current problem is not international crews being allowed to fly domestic legs. The problem is caused by the huge cut in international pay and how it is applied. Prior to the 1113 contract international pay was 15 dollars an hour for CA's and 10 for FO's. It applied to all operations in a international category including reserve guarantee, DH, domestic legs ect.. It is now 6 and 4 dollars an hour and only applies to actual international flying.
Prior to the 1113 contract the economic penalty was to high for the company to combine the categories and pay out all that international pay. The company could when needed fly domestic legs in the international categories but paid a penalty to do so. They only used that option when it was really required.
I believe one of the reasons they are rushing to get the 767 converted to all ER is so in the next contract when we open to restore international pay and how it is applied to the old standard they will claim its now way to expensive since the categories are combined. The answer to the company should be "I guess you will have to reopen the domestic categories" Contract surveys are coming soon. Get your wish lists ready. Going back to the old standard of international pay will certainly be high on my list.

forgot to bid 01-25-2011 07:31 AM

Interesting post Sailing.

flh57 01-25-2011 07:45 AM

More crew bases means less commuters, which is a good thing. I cannot believe the amount of commuters between BOS and LGA. The amount of hotels that the company has to absorb is crazy. The days of needing a chief pilot and staffing to support a crew base are long gone. I have been flying with a few fdal fo's lately who love the 320.

Bucking Bar 01-25-2011 08:06 AM


Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 935710)
International categories have been able to fly domestic rotations at Delta for at least the last 30 years. It really would not be workable in many bases to have it any other way. The company needs the ability to fly domestic legs with some international crews.
What has caused the current problem is not international crews being allowed to fly domestic legs. The problem is caused by the huge cut in international pay and how it is applied. Prior to the 1113 contract international pay was 15 dollars an hour for CA's and 10 for FO's. It applied to all operations in a international category including reserve guarantee, DH, domestic legs ect.. It is now 6 and 4 dollars an hour and only applies to actual international flying.
Prior to the 1113 contract the economic penalty was to high for the company to combine the categories and pay out all that international pay. The company could when needed fly domestic legs in the international categories but paid a penalty to do so. They only used that option when it was really required.
I believe one of the reasons they are rushing to get the 767 converted to all ER is so in the next contract when we open to restore international pay and how it is applied to the old standard they will claim its now way to expensive since the categories are combined. The answer to the company should be "I guess you will have to reopen the domestic categories" Contract surveys are coming soon. Get your wish lists ready. Going back to the old standard of international pay will certainly be high on my list.

Excellent post. Thanks. Just considering how to apply the wisdom of your post to our current operation.

What are your thoughts on the opposite extreme, like the 737 where the jet is used for Flag operations, but just barely?

767 pay does need increase on a relative basis in any event.

Bucking Bar 01-25-2011 08:17 AM


Originally Posted by flh57 (Post 935716)
More crew bases means less commuters, which is a good thing. I cannot believe the amount of commuters between BOS and LGA. The amount of hotels that the company has to absorb is crazy. The days of needing a chief pilot and staffing to support a crew base are long gone. I have been flying with a few fdal fo's lately who love the 320.

Yep, which means more stability, less training, more flexibility during IROPS and less cost. Seems like a win / win if I've ever seen one.

There is no reason we can not have a virtual chief pilot or make places like BOS a satellite of NYC, or MCO a satellite of ATL. They out source most HR functions and drug tests. If something happens that is a jeopardy situation, most of that is going to end up in ATL eventually anyway.

I don't even think a CPO secretary on site is a requirement.

tsquare 01-25-2011 08:31 AM


Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 935710)
International categories have been able to fly domestic rotations at Delta for at least the last 30 years. It really would not be workable in many bases to have it any other way. The company needs the ability to fly domestic legs with some international crews.
What has caused the current problem is not international crews being allowed to fly domestic legs. The problem is caused by the huge cut in international pay and how it is applied. Prior to the 1113 contract international pay was 15 dollars an hour for CA's and 10 for FO's. It applied to all operations in a international category including reserve guarantee, DH, domestic legs ect.. It is now 6 and 4 dollars an hour and only applies to actual international flying.
Prior to the 1113 contract the economic penalty was to high for the company to combine the categories and pay out all that international pay. The company could when needed fly domestic legs in the international categories but paid a penalty to do so. They only used that option when it was really required.
I believe one of the reasons they are rushing to get the 767 converted to all ER is so in the next contract when we open to restore international pay and how it is applied to the old standard they will claim its now way to expensive since the categories are combined. The answer to the company should be "I guess you will have to reopen the domestic categories" Contract surveys are coming soon. Get your wish lists ready. Going back to the old standard of international pay will certainly be high on my list.

The only thing I will comment on is the highlighted sentence. The rest of your post is OK with me...

As far as it being "workable", I think the combination of international and domestic legs are problematic too.. Example: I was supposed to give a TOE to a captain whose trip went DTW-ATL-PIT-CDG... Because of IROPS, the ENTIRE rotation got cancelled, and skeds wound up scrambling to cover (who knows how many flights). I realize that that is along the same lines as snow removal in ATL.. an acceptable risk, but it seems to have a greater potential to cause problems, and those problems are complex. I guess what bothers me is that the touted synergies of the combined domestic/international -ER category is mostly being realized in head count reduction only because the number of DHs and hub layovers is still pretty staggering. Some of that could be because of the FA situation, and once that is resolved, things might improve.. I dunno. All in all though, improving the international pay will be high on my list too. Too bad the horse will not only be out of the barn.. it will be so far down the road he will belong to somebody else.... still a failure of the association in my opinion because they should have seen this coming. I certainly did... it was pretty obvious.

nwaf16dude 01-25-2011 09:05 AM

Here's another one that needs fixin' ASAP... why is it that the company can deadhead me on mesaba or compass, but I cant positive space dv8 deadhead on them?

Going2Baja 01-25-2011 09:12 AM

How does the following change anyone's thoughts of an AK purchase?

"Alaska also ordered 15 new Boeing jets, most of them 737- 900ER twin-engine aircraft that can carry up to 215 passengers and fly longer distances than other jets in the 737 family. The planes will be delivered starting next year.

The company also said its Horizon Air regional unit, which is switching to an all-Q400 turboprop fleet made by Bombardier Inc., will drop its stylized sun logo and repaint its planes with Alaska’s Eskimo brand."

Baja.


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