Originally Posted by Brocc15 (Post 947378)

I wasn't talking about people "unwilling" to help, I was talking about people bragging about not helping others. If people don't want to help for their own personal reasons that's their prerogative, I just think its nice when people DO offer. There are many situations where people CAN do for themselves, but a little help is still nice. Example: If we are on a tight turn and the person I am flying with CAN get their own food, but since I am going in anyway I offer to get food for both of us. Or if someone is carrying stuff and they CAN open the door ahead, but its easier if I go ahead and hold it because I'm not carrying anything, I try to do that. It's simply being nice to other people. You are right though, it should not be EXPECTED, I think its too bad that people act entitled and it makes other people not want to help anyone.

Originally Posted by Scoop (Post 947399)

What company culture? The same company culture that furloughed over 1000 Pilots while Comair and ASA where hiring by the hundreds? The same company culture where management took millions in retention bonuses and then left anyway? The same company culture that filed BK and then terminiated our pensions but made sure management pensions were BK proof? The same company culture where management pits employee groups against each other - especially us evil and greedy Pilots.

In my opinion the culture that I believe you are talking about has not existed for about two decades at least.

I am all for helping people because it is the right thing to do - but it has nothing to do with company culture. The only company culture that I see is that we (employees) are costs to be minimized. What did one of our fearless managers (we don't really have leaders) say - "I lost sleep worrying that we did not take enough from the Pilots in BK."

I am sure that I am coming off quite bitter, but I am not - its just the way it is, and you will realize it too eventually. When I was hired I was probably the biggest Kool-aide drinking "company man" that you could imagine. Straight out of the military with foolish notions of loyalty and devotion - I would walk through the 727 picking up trash on turns - more senior pilots would just look at me and shake their heads.

I still enjoy working at Delta and espesially enjoy the great Pilot group we have but I really disagree with you regarding the culture at Delta.

Lets see how good the "culture" is in about two years when we are in section 6.:rolleyes:

Scoop - Rant over :)

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 947400)

nevermind Carl. I know what I know.. and I see what I see. You are in a fenced category.. I see both sides of the cockpit door with both players involved. When the fences come down, and you have a better mix of crews, we can talk. Until then you are too insulated to have a true perspective. I will give you a piece of a story that was recently relate to me by a south FA about her experience on the whale going to TLV. The captain NEVER introduced himself... NEVER briefed the crew... and there was a passenger issue that he basically blew up at HER for even though it was all HIS doing. I only wish I knew more about it and who he was.... naaaah no animosity there.... just bad communication, right?

Originally Posted by Scoop (Post 947399)

What company culture? The same company culture that furloughed over 1000 Pilots while Comair and ASA where hiring by the hundreds? The same company culture where management took millions in retention bonuses and then left anyway? The same company culture that filed BK and then terminiated our pensions but made sure management pensions were BK proof? The same company culture where management pits employee groups against each other - especially us evil and greedy Pilots.

In my opinion the culture that I believe you are talking about has not existed for about two decades at least.

I am all for helping people because it is the right thing to do - but it has nothing to do with company culture. The only company culture that I see is that we (employees) are costs to be minimized. What did one of our fearless managers (we don't really have leaders) say - "I lost sleep worrying that we did not take enough from the Pilots in BK."

I am sure that I am coming off quite bitter, but I am not - its just the way it is, and you will realize it too eventually. When I was hired I was probably the biggest Kool-aide drinking "company man" that you could imagine. Straight out of the military with foolish notions of loyalty and devotion - I would walk through the 727 picking up trash on turns - more senior pilots would just look at me and shake their heads.

I still enjoy working at Delta and espesially enjoy the great Pilot group we have but I really disagree with you regarding the culture at Delta.

Lets see how good the "culture" is in about two years when we are in section 6.:rolleyes:

Scoop - Rant over :)

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 947400)

nevermind Carl. I know what I know.. and I see what I see. You are in a fenced category.. I see both sides of the cockpit door with both players involved. When the fences come down, and you have a better mix of crews, we can talk. Until then you are too insulated to have a true perspective. I will give you a piece of a story that was recently relate to me by a south FA about her experience on the whale going to TLV. The captain NEVER introduced himself... NEVER briefed the crew... and there was a passenger issue that he basically blew up at HER for even though it was all HIS doing. I only wish I knew more about it and who he was.... naaaah no animosity there.... just bad communication, right?

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 947403)

That is the heart of the problem. Those with expectations and entitlement mentalities harden people against helping with things that could injur them.

If I saw you struggling, I would help you. If you did nothing except whimper and hope that I would "get your hint", I would not.

But here's a question for you: How would you feel if I saw you struggling, and came over to help you. In the course of my lifting your suitcase, I injur my back. After I burn through my sick leave and have to support my family on 50% of my normal pay - how would you feel? Would you wish I had never helped you in the first place? Would you wish that you had packed in such a manner that you could always handle your own affairs?

Carl

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 947403)

That is the heart of the problem. Those with expectations and entitlement mentalities harden people against helping with things that could injur them.

If I saw you struggling, I would help you. If you did nothing except whimper and hope that I would "get your hint", I would not.

But here's a question for you: How would you feel if I saw you struggling, and came over to help you. In the course of my lifting your suitcase, I injur my back. After I burn through my sick leave and have to support my family on 50% of my normal pay - how would you feel? Would you wish I had never helped you in the first place? Would you wish that you had packed in such a manner that you could always handle your own affairs?

Carl

Originally Posted by maddogmax (Post 947415)

I was hoping we would start to get over this us versus them crap after a year. There are hundreds of these stories out there. It is time to get over it and concentrate on 2012

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 947400)

nevermind Carl. I know what I know.. and I see what I see.

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 947400)

I will give you a piece of a story that was recently relate to me by a south FA about her experience on the whale going to TLV. The captain NEVER introduced himself... NEVER briefed the crew... and there was a passenger issue that he basically blew up at HER for even though it was all HIS doing. I only wish I knew more about it and who he was.... naaaah no animosity there.... just bad communication, right?

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 947400)

You are in a fenced category.. I see both sides of the cockpit door with both players involved. When the fences come down, and you have a better mix of crews, we can talk. Until then you are too insulated to have a true perspective.

Originally Posted by NERD (Post 947412)

Do we want to go there. Stories from FAs? How much merit vs drama do you give these stories? I have heard a few about the South capts. from FAs and for the most part took it with a grain of salt.