Lol I'm in my 20s! I'm female though so naturally I don't have as much arm strength as men do, that's just simply not the way most women are built. Like I said, I CAN lift my bag, but I think its really nice when people offer to help that it is much easier for. And I'll repeat, I don't EXPECT it ever. I help passengers all the time that have trouble, like if they have extra stuff because they are carrying a baby and need help opening a stroller, or are walking to a wheel chair and have bags that if I carried to the wheel chair would be a lot easier for them. All I'm saying is I think its nice when people offer help.

My uneducated guess is that the company will never say in a bargaining session that "we can't agree to this item because we don't want to give it to every one else." But you can lay odds that it is a driving factor in some items.

Denny

I wasn't talking about people "unwilling" to help, I was talking about people bragging about not helping others. If people don't want to help for their own personal reasons that's their prerogative, I just think its nice when people DO offer. There are many situations where people CAN do for themselves, but a little help is still nice. Example: If we are on a tight turn and the person I am flying with CAN get their own food, but since I am going in anyway I offer to get food for both of us. Or if someone is carrying stuff and they CAN open the door ahead, but its easier if I go ahead and hold it because I'm not carrying anything, I try to do that. It's simply being nice to other people. You are right though, it should not be EXPECTED, I think its too bad that people act entitled and it makes other people not want to help anyone.

Deleted/withdrawn/removed/rethought.

http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/yhst-...nice-thumb.png

Maybe we're not talking about the same subject.

I'm talking about the concept that DALPA can negotiate for something, and management says: "We can't do it because then we would have to do that for everybody." I can understand management's hope that we'll fall for such a blatantly dumb argument, but I can't understand pilots defending it as part of the "culture" at Delta. That must change.

If other employee groups have enmity because we negotiated something for our own group, they'll have to deal with their enmity. That is NOT my problem. If management says they can't allow this or that in our contract because then they'll have to give it to everybody else, that is NOT my problem.

I understand and appreciate culture. But things change and times change. This is part of the old Delta culture that MUST change.

And by the way, we did not have enmity between northside cockpit and cabin crews. We got along pretty well. About the same as I see now between the southies.

Carl

+1 That sums it up.

You didn't want to go down that road, huh? :D

If they never state it as the reason, then they'll just appear as intransigent in front of the NMB. If they do state that as the reason, the NMB would quickly slap management down as attempting to negotiate outside the scope of the RLA. Either way, management loses with this concept.

The ONLY way they can win is if we pilots EXCUSE it as part of the Delta "culture."

Carl

What company culture? The same company culture that furloughed over 1000 Pilots while Comair and ASA where hiring by the hundreds? The same company culture where management took millions in retention bonuses and then left anyway? The same company culture that filed BK and then terminiated our pensions but made sure management pensions were BK proof? The same company culture where management pits employee groups against each other - especially us evil and greedy Pilots.

In my opinion the culture that I believe you are talking about has not existed for about two decades at least.

I am all for helping people because it is the right thing to do - but it has nothing to do with company culture. The only company culture that I see is that we (employees) are costs to be minimized. What did one of our fearless managers (we don't really have leaders) say - "I lost sleep worrying that we did not take enough from the Pilots in BK."

I am sure that I am coming off quite bitter, but I am not - its just the way it is, and you will realize it too eventually. When I was hired I was probably the biggest Kool-aide drinking "company man" that you could imagine. Straight out of the military with foolish notions of loyalty and devotion - I would walk through the 727 picking up trash on turns - more senior pilots would just look at me and shake their heads.

I still enjoy working at Delta and espesially enjoy the great Pilot group we have but I really disagree with you regarding the culture at Delta.

Lets see how good the "culture" is in about two years when we are in section 6.:rolleyes:

Scoop - Rant over :)

nevermind Carl. I know what I know.. and I see what I see. You are in a fenced category.. I see both sides of the cockpit door with both players involved. When the fences come down, and you have a better mix of crews, we can talk. Until then you are too insulated to have a true perspective. I will give you a piece of a story that was recently relate to me by a south FA about her experience on the whale going to TLV. The captain NEVER introduced himself... NEVER briefed the crew... and there was a passenger issue that he basically blew up at HER for even though it was all HIS doing. I only wish I knew more about it and who he was.... naaaah no animosity there.... just bad communication, right?