I recall a discussion I had with a-then Scheduling Committee Chair about manning formulas several years ago (back in the days when you could actually drop trips/reserve days). DAL was moving aggressively toward increasing staffing efficiencies. This chairman adamantly stated that DAL would never go down to the minimum contractual manning because, citing ‘past practice,’ they never had before. If I recall correctly, he even said this would be a basis for filing a grievance.

ALPA’s reliance on past practices has shown a lack of foreward thinking that has damaged us significantly in the aftermath of contract negotiations, as the dust settles and new rules are implemented.

Similarly, I had a conversation with the R&I Chair – at the time when USAir pilots were losing their pensions in bankruptcy and it was rumored UAL’s were at risk. I asked him about our pensions – and he guaranteed they were safe…that it just couldn’t happen here.

Well, lets use the Slot Swap as an example. Not a monopoly of NYC in the least but still not approved. Lets us the V Blue example. Not a monopoly in the least, but not DOJ approved. Now look at Alaska, not a monopoly, little to no overlap, and you assume the DOJ will rubber stamp it without someone else trying to buy them? The logic fails for me. :eek:

As for when I feel it is a time to fight, when our PWA has been violated. In Section six, when we are not going to get what we deserve, but to be able to fight effectively we need to be unified. Reality is that this thread and the DPA thread prove that we can be divided and conquered very easily. We can still change that though.

What you fail to acknowlegde here is that we are divided because ALPA isn't fighting for us. DPA with its warts was an attempt to reverse that.

The only thing being conquered is ALPA...

Leverage, maybe? Give it away and make dalpa "buy it back" during contract time.

So are we going to unify around surrender and mediocrity? Or are we going to unify around restoring our profession and our careers? It seems that ALPA is all about the former. And if they can't get behind the latter, then they are of little use and I think we need to try something different. A good number of us will not unify around surrender and mediocrity. There's your problem.

Like I said, file a grievance and start the process. If you want a group grievance, go for it. Prior to going to the company though, the Contract Admin will lay out the case with the lawyers and give you the facts. After this has transpired, maybe people will understand why it is the way it is.

Just because it is this way does not mean I like it. If you recall, I was irked when RJET bought MEH, and wanted what you want. I read the facts and was shown the reality of the situation.

Best one can hope for is that they go down to one certificate, or jets larger than 76 seats are operated on a certificate that operates our flying. To date that is not happening.

As for CHQ flying and the 145, they do not fly jets larger than 76 seats.

That is where you are wrong. ALPA and DALPA fights every day for you. I see it. What is different is that they do not fight for the sake of fighting, they fight, fights that are legitimate. They are not going to pick a fight just for the sake of it. Wanting your union to fight a fight just for the sake of the fight will cause more harm that good. There are better ways to resolve the RJET deal than heading in to a fight were the current facts do not favor us. I have stated how.

Also, look at the latest 10K and look at when these contracts are expiring, even the new ones. Everything will be gone in ten years. Force DAL's hand to commit to stopping the outsourcing as these expire, do not try to reverse engineer our PWA language. Everyone will see though it. We agreed to it, now we have to undo it.

DPA has some good idea, I even admit that, but the reality is that everyone that I have talked to that is "pro dpa" has issues with people within alpa and not the structure. Reality is the structure of the independents mirrors DALPA and CAPA loosely mirrors ALPA. If you want and demand change, work for it within the structure that is in place, because after all, DPA will have a similar structure. Why? You can answer that.

It would appear, according to our new MEC Chairman (and former ALPA Collective Bargaining Chair), that pattern bargaining ended around 2001 (reference the graph on page 34):

http://www.alpa.org/publications/air_line_pilot_october_2010/Air_Line_Pilot_October_2010.pdf

Maybe someone could 'update' it for us?

Gotcha... it doesn't matter because chatauqua does plenty of flying on our certificate as well. So what gives? Gonna try to squirm out of this one? ;)

Agree 100%
That's why its DALPAs job is to foster unity in the pilot group.
It's called a Union for a reason.

Unfortunately there are some inside DALPA that have made this into an us vs them fight. Their definition of Union is to crush dissent.

This thread with all its banter is no real indication of the pilot group as a whole...

Cheers
George